Are The Old Machines Better/more Reliable Than The New Clones?

[lranger]

Could I get some opinions as to whether you think the old walking foot machines are better than the new clone machines? Do they work trouble free longer and have less problems on a continuing basis?

It just seems to me that I see a lot of the brand new machines having problems right away.

[DoubleC]

Hi lranger. I can only speak for myself. I would have loved to have one of the older machines at one time because of the money, i.e. them being cheaper for the most part than new machines. However, I got a real deal on a Cobra 4 and yes I've had problems and they were operator error, not the machines fault. I have two old singers, not walking foots, a hand crank and a treadle and no one would expect to sit down to one of these or newer domestic singers and sew everything without reading the manual several times and practicing. Yet a lot of leather workers want to do that, want a new machine to self oil, self adjust and perhaps play music too. My first job on my Cobra was 20 oz and it sewed it like a charm. When I dropped down to 2 oz, not so good. Well first of all that's not what it's designed to do and secondly it needed some tension adjustment etc. before I could coax it to do it anyway. I'm not putting down the old machines though. There are some great ones. But there's going to be a learning curve on whatever you buy. Cheryl

[lranger]

OK, I'm not trying to disparage anybody's machines. I'm just trying to understand. Let me put it this way;

I have a Honda 4wheeler. It's a "machine" built for a specific purpose. I use the heck out of it, it takes a lickin' and just keeps on tickin".

I have a Stihl weed eater. It's a "machine" built for a specific purpose. I use the heck out of it, it takes a lickin' and just keeps on tickin".

I have a Stihl chain saw. Etc., etc.

I have a Chevy 2500 pickup. It's a machine built for a purpose. I use all these machines within the purpose they were made for and they don't constantly jump timing or quit working for no reason. They last a long time

A sewing machine is just that,,, a machine built for a specific purpose. If it's well made, I can't understand why it wouldn't just sew, and sew, and sew, and sew until you wear something out or a part breaks.

I've been a mechanic all my life. I'm used to working on machines. It's just sewing machines that I don't have a lot of experience with,,,, but I'm getting there.

Are you telling me that sewing machines are so delicate that you have to always handle them with kid gloves and baby them along all the time, and pray that you'll get a few days of work out of it before you have to work on it again? If that's the way they all are, then I don't see how they'd be worth it.

Keith

[DoubleC]

No I'm not trying to tell you that at all. For example my Cobra is supposed to be used on thick items. However through practice I have been able to to get it to do thinner things for me. However I should have a cobra 18 for thinner stuff.

I have a Chevy 2500 pickup. It's a machine built for a purpose. I use all these machines within the purpose they were made for and they don't constantly jump timing or quit working for no reason. They last a long time. As do sewing machines used for the purpose they were built for. You wouldn't buy a 2500 would you to haul a stick around? These sewing machines are not delicate at all, and is one of the biggest things you have to get over. I was worried to death I was going to 'break' this solid steel machine.

If I knew more of what you wanted to do I could advise you better because just as all trucks are not built to do the same job, neither are sewing machines. Cheryl

[lranger]

I'm not trying to figure out how to do anything, right now. I'm just trying to understand why people are having so much trouble with new machines. The reason I want to know is so I'll know whether to keep the new machine I have, or get rid of it for an older, more reliable machine. (I've already been through two months of trouble with mine.)

I understand perfectly about using a sewing machine for what it was designed to do, as in my examples. My point is, I expect machines to do what they were designed and sold to me to do. If they don't, I won't keep it.

I would like to ask you about sewing 2 oz. leather on that Class 4. I haven't looked it up, but I wouldn't think you could put a small enough needle in it for 2 oz. I use a #16. What are you using? This is another area where I have questions. The way I look at it, the machine doesn't know what you put in it, and very generally, most sewing machines work basically the same way. They all have a needle that goes up and down, a bobbin that goes around (or oscillates), and they have upper and lower thread tension adjustments. So if you can physically get a smaller needle in it so you can use smaller thread, then why shouldn't it sew thinner leather?

I believe that old things, like machinery and tools, are made better than new ones. I'm just trying to determine if that is the case with these sewing machines.

Thanks for your interest and help, Cheryl.

[silverbullet]

The machines today are not made like the old ones. The time to machine and forge items are cut to make the item cheaper, ck the price of an Adler 205 and compare it to the china clone , the machining and fitting on the Adler is done with precision on all fronts as is the price . Don't knock the clones they are built like tanks but sometimes little things crop up. The guys here who sell them stand behind there products they have gone over and cked every machine they sell , sometimes it's the people who buy them don't take the time to get to know the machine .every thing takes time to learn even a new car takes some time getting use to it. And you wouldn't use your pick up truck to haul a load of liquid cement , just not made for it . I have two old singers a 29-4 and an 111w155 plus two alders an 30-1 and a 104-25 all of these are great for the purpose they are intended. None of my machines will sew 3/4" but my limited means these work for me I'd like to sell them and get a cowboy or a cobra. But ya know I like my old ones and thanks to Bob Kovar at Toledo sewing I keep them running and in good condition . A special thanks to Bob and his dad Bob too . Gary , ck with them they sell used ones too.

[gottaknow]

Industrial sewing machines are designed to sew within their intended range of threads, needles, thickness of material, etc. When you're hobby sewing or sewing very limited volume, you can certainly "fudge" many settings to exceed the designed specs. Folks that do a fair amount of home sewing actually get quite good at making these adjustments. For anyone to say "machine a" will only do this, and "machine b" will only do that is silly. Machines overlap their specs to some degree.

However, to obtain the highest quality and the most speed needed in a factory setting, you have to pay close attention to what a given machine is designed to do. Using the wrong machine for the wrong task in a factory costs money. Better to have a wider array of machines that do things very well. My observation over the years has been that when folks try and take their hobby to the next level, they neglect the fact that there are better machines for certain things and additional machines are needed. A very common result of not getting the correct equipment is that the machine you have may get "adjusted to death". I don't know how many times I've seen this happen. The individual then wants to blame the machine. I would never use the same machine to sew 2 layers of garment leather and then try and use the same machine to sew 4 layers of heavy bridle leather.

I certainly understand the financial limitations of owning an ideal machine for everything. I have that luxury in the factory, though at times it's hard to get the bean counters to understand it. I'm fortunate in that the company I work for completely trusts my judgment when it comes to purchasing machines. I have machines from the 50's that I use everyday and ones that I bought last week. I love the old machines and I love the new machines. There simply isn't one sewing machine that will do everything.

Regards, Eric

[DoubleC]

You are most welcome. The problem is I was using (and still am) a 23 needle and 207 thread. Also to sew anything the needle thread and bobbin are supposed to form a knot in the middle. I'm going to show you a pouch I am sewing right now and explain some things I would do over if I was redoing it.

The main pouch is going to be sewn 3 layers of around 1" pig. I put a different color of lamb on the front, also about 1 " , and it will have like a welt at the bottom that is holding the fringe. And I intend to make a dog collar type closure so I'm sewing belt loops on it. To make things worse the pig is stretchy and the lamb isn't. All in all a not very well thought out project but one I wanted to make. I will post the pictures and then explain what's wrong with it and why I wish I had used a smaller machine for it.

[DoubleC]

If you look at the first pic lranger you'll see the material on the front is sewn pretty well, not perfect by any means. I held the lamb in place with double sided tape. However I sewed it before this picture and you can see in the second picture where I didn't have it taped and the pig stretched all over and the lamb didn't. This is just a prototype, first time I've made a pouch with fringe so I am learning as I go. The pouch will be rounded on the bottom. You can still see here that there's very little room for the thread to knot in the middle. Cheryl

[Tramps Leatherworking]

We all have different opinions and experiences with these machines --- I have two Singer treadles that are over 90 years old and I use them daily for leatherworking. They are easy to maintain and setup and both sew like they were new. I also have new machines that are much more finicky... It would be very interesting to see how many of today's machines are still in use and sewing perfectly 90+ years from now...