Leather Thickness For Turnshoe Uppers

[JakeDiebolt]

Hello all, I'm looking for some guidance here.

I'm planning on making my first set of turnshoes and I'm having trouble finding what leather thickness to use. The more technical texts (Shoes and Pattens, Anglo-Scandinavian Leatherworking in York), talk about types of leather but not thicknesses.

Tutorials online contradict each other - some say to use 5/6oz leather, at least one says that anything thicker than 4 oz will always split when you turn them. Given that the leather species used for uppers in medieval contexts was often calf, sheep, or goat, it seems like the leather would be quite thin - maybe2- 3 oz. But how on earth could you do a butt stitch or tunnel stitch on such thin leather(like for heel stiffeners and closing seams).

So, for those of you in the know - what thickness have you used for uppers? Has anyone had any luck doing closing seams on really tin leather?

[DJole]

The one pair of shoes I have built so far (of a turn welt construction) were of a pretty thin leather.

I can't remember what thickness, but I estimate 2 or 3 oz leather. There is no butt stitch or tunnel stitch on these, however, so it doesn't answer your question.

It would be VERY difficult to do a butt stitch on that thin leather, and I don't see such a stitch lasting very long under the stress and strain of footwear.

I don't claim that they are reproduction medieval shoes (I made them a LONG time ago, before the Web existed, and I didn't have a copy of the book by Francis Grew and Margarethe de Neergaard, 1988, Shoes and pattens: medieval finds from excavations in London.

The stitches I used (based on Marc Carlson's chart from his excellent shoe webpage) on this shoe were what Carlson terms Stabbed Stitching (Flesh/Grain stitching).

See chart here: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/STITCH2.HTM#SEAMS

The welt I used is 3 or 4 oz. leather, and the soles are probably 5 oz leather.

[amuckart]

I use 2.5mm veg tanned double shoulders and it works very well. I use 5-6mm veg for the soles, which is borderline too thin but works Ok.

[JakeDiebolt]

Hey amuckart! I did settle on using about the same thickness of leather as you use - mostly from reading your blog, honestly.

5-6 mm seems really thick, like it would be hard to turn. Is that for later turn-welted or welted shoes, or do you use it for regular turn shoes too?

[amuckart]

Glad my blog is useful

5-6mm isn't too difficult to turn at all provided you get the right stuff. Avoid sole bend, it's hard rolled and far too stiff for turnshoes. The stuff I have is "48 hour" tanned (normal 'vegetable' tan is 6-12 hours) and it's nicely flexible. I can't get any more though. Regular thick veg tan still turns easily.