Wickett & Craig Drum Dyed Skirting Backs - Feedback Needed!

[RawhideLeather]

Hey guys and gals, I have been ordering from Wickett & Craig for years now and I know that many consider them to be the best leather tannery/supplier out there, I was one of them. I used to get good quality backs from them when I was ordering the skirting in the russet color but since switching to the drum dyed black and brown backs I have been disappointed in the overall quality on almost every order. This is what I have been ordering:

SKIRTING BACK - STD GRADE, 12 OZ. LEVELED, HOLSTER, REFINISH, PASTE

On my last order I paid $9.45 s/f and I always order the standard grade which is the best available. I talked to Glenn a couple of times about my disappointment in the quality and even offered to pay more (gulp!!!) if I had to to get a more consistent and higher quality. He assured me that they would up their game but that didn't seem to happen. Even though these are top quality backs I typically have at least 30% waste due to scars, spots, stretch marks, soft belly areas, fibrous flesh side areas, spongey areas (despite paying extra for holstering), scratches, marks, etc. This is their best grade? Unfortunately I can't switch to another supplier because I need the hides to be 12 oz. and leveled and I know of no one else who offers that.

Many years ago I used to order from Hermann Oak and I got great quality so I know what nice leather looks/feels like. Unfortunately my last order from them was pretty bad and I had to return it - the black pre-dyed color I requested was actually a grayish purple and the overall quality was pretty poor. Hermann Oak is no longer an option for me. So here are a few questions, especially for those who use W&C on a regular basis:

1) Isn't that much waste on a standard (best) grade back excessive?

2) Are they maybe sending me a lesser grade because I'm ordering the drum dyed black/brown darker color?

3) Would I just be better off going back to ordering in the russet color and dyeing it myself? I really don't want to do this because of health and time issues and it's difficult for me to get the color as consistent as the drum dyed.

4) What is your experience with the quality of their drum dyed backs or backs in general?

I know they are capable of making a good product but don't know what else I can do to get them to send me consistent brown/black backs. I am not a high quantity buyer but that should not really be a factor in my humble opinion. Maybe it is though?

I'm not trying to bash W&C by any means, I'm just pretty frustrated at this point to be honest.

Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[JLSleather]

Well, this is not encouraging. I've been thinking the same thing lately -- about the HO I've been seeing. There's some good leather, but the waste factor is WAY too high. Some of the HO sides I've seen lately have had rough flesh sides, "spongey" shoulders, very loose grain toward the belly (but not actually the belly, which is largely useless), and even some unexplained white "marks" on the top - some of which took dye and some didn't. And these were all "A" and "B" hides.

So, I've been considering going back to using W/C again, but perhaps not now!

[RawhideLeather]

JLSleather - keep in mind that my post refers to their darker drum dyed leather. The last time I purchased russet from them it was very good.

[makitmama]

ok- I'm a leather neophyte- but could this be related to the droughts and generally poor condition of cattle in the midwest last year? I know people who slaughtered their whole herds because they couldn't maintain them...

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I've seen an overall decline in the leather I've been getting no matter where it comes from and some of it's Hermann Oak, some of it's W & C, the worst has been Weaver's Chahin sides. Just a lot of unusable material in a side. I generally figure about 30-35% waste in any given side, and rarely if ever do I buy backs, because I feel the backs I have received are not trimmed enough to justify the higher price. Essentially, you're giving them the belly for free. The leather I've gotten from Wickett in the past, while good enough in quality, has often been poor yielding stuff due to exactly the reasons you described. I doubt the hide quality has anything to do with the drought. While many cow herds were sold on the slaughter market due to drought, cattle numbers are down now, and more replacements being kept instead of marketed for slaughter, so there may be fewer good hides on the market overall. That is speculation on my part, I don't know what the numbers actually say. Frankly, I don't think the vegetable tanners get the cream of the crop. I think most of the hides processed, and the best hides, go to the upholstery, automotive, footwear, garment, handbag, etc. industries. About ten years ago I heard that all of the hides processed by the vegetable tanners such as W &C and Hermann for the equine industries represent only 2% of the total number of hides processed. So they just don't have the buying power that the other big players do. I don't have an answer for you, only that I feel your frustration and I don't look for things to improve. Really the only thing for us to do is adjust our prices accordingly and tell the customer exactly why it is that they have to pay more, and then hope that they still keep buying leather goods from us!

[RawhideLeather]

Thank you both for your input. If I had any use at all for the bellies I would buy the sides instead as well. Maybe the quality just is what it is and there's nothing the tanneries can do about it. Too bad, there used to be some really nice leather available at one time...

Please keep the replies coming.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

You have to remember that the different grades at any tannery are based on what they have; the hides are graded on a curve. Their best , whether it's "Standard" or "A" or "#1" or "B for Best" like the old Muir McDonald tannery use to have, is the best of what they have at any given time. They may have guidelines that a specific grade is supposed to meet, but generally, their best hides at the time will receive their highest grade. There is no such thing as a perfect hide, of which I'm sure you're well aware, but personally, I don't look for the quality to improve all that much in the future.