Talent - Either You Have It Or Not

[stelhrse]

I was reading a post not too far back under the Marketing and Advertising thread about starting your business. One of the comments made was "Talent and what you do with what you have is where it's at" caused me to ponder this statement a bit and the reason for this post. I have often wondered if "talent" is a case where either you have it or you don't at least in the world of leather crafting. Is a drive and passion to learn the craft enough to make up for any lack of talent is or talent something that is fine tuned as you use any skills you may have? It seems some folks have a natural ability to do certain things but can talent be a learned attribute or is it just merely developing your skills without a "natural talent"?

Is talent something that comes from developing your skills? I have always felt that if you want to learn something and have drive to do it, you can make up for any lack of talent this way. Am I wrong? Thanks.

[DavidL]

To be an "Expert" (top .1 percent) there is a popular theory that it takes 10,000 hours to master a task. If you don't plateau and continue to improve gradually you could become top 1 percent without a doubt and a shot at top .1+ percent. Some can go for many years and still wont become a master because they plateau (lack of guidance or lack of passion) or neglect the fundamentals. They could become better than 97 percent of people with just the time they put in but the last few percent is 10x harder than the first 97 percent.

In my opinion any one who dedicates 10 thousand hours into a task has a strong mind set and that in itself is a mastery of your own mind. A person without that mindset/passion and stops at 1000 thousand hours could be better than 90 percent.

There are also many variables like physical (less so in leather rather than sports), mindset/passion (also have to master the way you think as well as leatherwork).

Could someone with less natural ability out beat someone with natural ability? I say yes as long as they spend more time in areas the person with natural ability don't need to.

At a VERY high level, top .000001 percent are usually those with unusually great natural talent, unusual genetics and unusual drive/mind like NBA players or top scientists. Unfortunately those without amazing natural ability can make it to top .01 but very slim of .000001.

Edited February 16, 2015 by DavidL

[MonicaJacobson]

I've often heard the 10,000 hours theory, and I thought it made sense as well.

I think observation has a lot to do with ability, and can be trained. If you can't observe where your own work falls short, you won't know how to proceed. If you can't observe what is good about great work, you won't see what to work towards. The longer you do something, the more you are able to see what is good work and what isn't. Sometimes getting good at something might mean ditching something you're obviously bad at, and creatively redirecting yourself towards your own strengths.

David might disagree with me here, but I think almost anyone, given enough time and dedication, can get to the level of a Hermes worker. They've got the tools, they've got the mentors, and they push you to be excellent. (Granted, you have to provide your own persistence and dexterity, and I do think some people might not have the dexterity or the desire to pay that much attention to detail). While I admire their skill, I admire individual creativity and inventiveness more.

So no, I don't think you either have talent or you don't. I don't think talent is a mystical quality. To me, it's passion, creativity, and observation. Some people pay better attention, I think.

[TwinOaks]

I think talent is also describable as 'raw ability', and frankly some folks just don't have it. I'm a decent artist but I'm not an inspired artist. It's incredibly rare that I sit down and just draw something from my head that turns out wonderfully. For example: I'm technically proficient enough to look at something and reproduce it- a still life, a live model posing, etc., but if I just start drawing something, it's like I have too many versions in my head to get the details of only one, and there's little bits and pieces of other things in the image. The result is something that cavemen would scoff at. I believe it IS possible to take a modicum of talent and hone it into a skill, which is more or less what I've done. But if you don't have a base level of talent, it's very hard to ever develop it or replace it with skill.

One of the members of my FB group posted some pics done by her 15yo brother. They looked like black and white photographs. I call his ability "talent" because of the quality of his work vs. his age. I've seen professional artists 3 times his age that had skill....but not his natural ability.

[lightingale]

In art class, one of my teachers' mantra was "art is 10% talent and 90% hard work".

Talent is only a small part of the equation. It's a matter of doing, learning, practice, and experience. And inspiration, as Twin said.

[DavidL]

I agree with monica how everyone if exposed long enough and has the want to become a hermes work can become one it may take 4 years maybe 10 but nothing is given to you, it has to be earned. Hermes workers are among the top 1 percent. If we are talking the most top of the food chain only 1 out of 100 of those hermes worker will be .01 percentile which is in most likely hood the instructor. In that regard its a never ending path, you can improve even in your 20th year.

The one thing I see most often is people find an excuse how its not possible (there are 1000 different excuses) and once you believe in an excuse its game over. Its better to give it a shot if its feasible and possibly fail instead of not doing it at all. If at any point you tell your self you can't do it for X or Y your right. if you say you can do it your also right although. its harder to fight through it than it is for the instant gratification of quitting. At the moment where you are unsure if you will keep improving or wont succeed is where greatness comes from, the ability to work past the plateau.

Now that I hashed together my thoughts talent = small amount of natural talent + mindset + passion + time + evaluation + controlled madness (Which pushes people to need to be improving)

Some what related. Video where a podcaster talks about the how elite athletes have similar mindsets and the drive it takes for them to be where they are at.

Edited February 16, 2015 by DavidL

[thefanninator]

Several pieces have to come together... Everyone has potential... for some people finding the "thing" is one of the hardest things... For others, like Michael Phelps it seems like he was born to swim and he found it very early and found a coach and stuck with it.

I've quit many things that I was good at probably for no other reason than I got bored or plateaued.

When I was a kid my dad did a little leatherwork and I always wanted that mini saddle from Tandy but I never got it.

Somewhere around 2005 I made an archery arm guard out of some scrap leather someone gave me. I found my father's old leather stamps and swivel knife and with no idea what I was doing scratched around on this piece of leather that wasn't even the right kind of leather. I thought "I can't do this" and put it all away.

Then in 2013 I started doing leatherwork for real to make my own arm guards. In this photo the left one is the scrap leather from 2005 and the one on the right is the first one I made when I really started. They suck! But I kept telling myself "Don't quit." The last arm guard is one I made several months ago.

I like Arnold's motivational speech.

Edited February 17, 2015 by thefanninator

[MonicaJacobson]

LOL, "sleep faster".

[Ingrid H]

The Arnold video was really good. I'm coming to appreciate him more and more except for his infidelities. He really worked his ass off and achieved more than I could ever dream of.

Working hard isn't all there is to getting good at something though. I can't buy into the 10,000 hours theory. As a carpenter for 25+ years, I've seen years where I didn't learn a single thing even when I was exposed to people who tried to tell me how to get better. I remember the day about 5 years after I was told how to scribe and it finally sunk in. I was like, "Oh! So that's what he was talking about!" You've got to be ready to absorb some knowledge. You've also got to be exposed to different things to put them all together in your brain. Good teachers help, but experience helps even more.

When I think of someone who lacked the knowledge but got good at something through practice, I think of Steve Martin and his banjo playing. Steve was not a natural musician, but he took lessons and practiced until he was good. Is he a talented musician? I don't think so. But is he a good banjo player? Yes!

[snubbyfan]

I've always made stuff. Sculpting, mask making, airbrushing, woodcraft, jewelry making, leathercrafting, stuff like that. I've also been a rollerblader, mountain biker, backpacker, rock climber and stuff like that.

In the last coupla years, I've developed a peripheral motor nerve condition which has really reduced my physical abilities.

I'm not able to do a lot of the stuff that I could do before.

However with a little experimenting, I've found ways to still do leathercrafting and my doctor says it's good therapy for my hands.

It just seems like I gotta be doing or making something.