venator Report post Posted April 12, 2015 I don't think you should be putting words in their mouths. Please don't misunderstand, I haven't spoken with them and I'm certainly not in any way attempting to speak poorly of them. I simply don't see what someone who's thousands of miles away can do over the phone that won't cost me an arm and a leg. In my experience the further a seller is from you geographically and particularly different countries the less they're able to support their product. This is not their fault and I don't mean to sound like I'm blaming them as I'm sure that somehow this is something I did (god knows what but it must be). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
venator Report post Posted April 12, 2015 Here's a close up video of the thread breaking, hopefully someone can see if I've done something dumb that's causing it. Video.MOV Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TinkerTailor Report post Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Leightons.ca is in delburne outside red deer and they sell and fix leather industrial machines new and used. They would also know a local guy who does house calls. There is also mason sewing in Edmonton. Edited April 13, 2015 by TinkerTailor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
venator Report post Posted April 13, 2015 I'll call tomorrow. Though I don't know if it's worth it though given that I work 7 days a week right now and the machine will be moving to Toronto at the end of May hopefully. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Your problem may have to do with the needle as well. Your thread appears to "break" right after you reverse. I noticed that when I use leather tri-point needles, the needle will sometimes actually cut the thread in a previously stitched hole if I reverse the stitch. The leather point needle tips are like little knives and they cut leather (and thread) quite easily. Your thread may be cut instead of break when reversing, or the thread may be cut partially and then break when it's pulled tight in the upward stroke. Personally, I no longer use reverse when I stitch thick leather with a tri-point or similar knife-edged needle. I just finish the seam by hand, which is a little more manual work, but to me it looks cleaner and is less frustrating than messing up an otherwise fine seam on the second to last stitch. I'd try sewing with a different needle (regular point, not a knife-edge needle) and see if the thread still breaks upon reversing. If your thread also breaks when stitching forward into new holes, the problem is not the needle. Try to eliminate a few possible causes. Edited April 13, 2015 by Uwe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
venator Report post Posted April 13, 2015 The thread seems to break most in reverse but it also breaks going forward, not quite as often but it still happens unfortunately. The spring is travelling as much as the stopper allows and no matter what I've tried I cannot seem to move the stopper to allow more travel so I think that's a set item. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted April 13, 2015 For remote, internet based debugging, try find a friend with an iPhone 6 and try to take a close-up video like mine at https://youtu.be/Dg12IXhcqkU (2:40 mark) to show what's going on inside when you're stitching and the thread is breaking. A real close-up video snippet with that kind of angle, resolution, good lighting, focus (even better in super slow motion) of the thread breaking would go a long way toward figuring out what's going wrong, without schlepping the machine around. Just an idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brmax Report post Posted April 13, 2015 If as you said your moving when summers over in May to Toronto then there might be some download manuals on the net to help reference a bit. There is always great responses on the site here but this fast? and the top dogs? nice! Is the same size thread used now as in the setup and run/off when you picked up or got the machine. Good Day there Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted April 13, 2015 For local repair options, check with your Central Sewing Machines Store in Edmonton. Any reputable sewing machine store will have access to repair people to fix machines. No need to move the entire table around, they just need (or rather, want) the machine head. The repair person will drop the machine head into their own table for testing and repair.Your machine may have arrived on a pallet, all assembled. Most industrial machine heads can be lifted out of the table after tilting it back and disconnecting the drive belt. The head itself will be quite heavy but manageable - no need for a truck, just a trunk. I have a handy little folding cart to move my machine heads around when needed. Your machine head will be bigger, but not dramatically. (http://www.amazon.com/Magna-Cart-Flatform-300-Capacity/dp/B002TITK8O). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) You can download manuals and parts lists for your machine from Durkopp Adler here: http://www.duerkopp-adler.com/en/main/Support/downloads/index.html?action=search&prop0=%2Fcommons%2Fdownload%2Fpublic%2F467-180%2F&prop1= Edited April 13, 2015 by Uwe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
venator Report post Posted April 13, 2015 I have the manuals, unfortunately the don't seem to be helping with this. I've called central sewing, I have to have someone come out apparently so that's going to be a few hundred $$ they said. Probably for 10 min work but I guess I have to pay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
venator Report post Posted April 13, 2015 For remote, internet based debugging, try find a friend with an iPhone 6 and try to take a close-up video like mine at https://youtu.be/Dg12IXhcqkU (2:40 mark) to show what's going on inside when you're stitching and the thread is breaking. A real close-up video snippet with that kind of angle, resolution, good lighting, focus (even better in super slow motion) of the thread breaking would go a long way toward figuring out what's going wrong, without schlepping the machine around. Just an idea. I'll see what I can do. I only have an iPhone 4s... And not enough hands to sew and hold it but I'll try. I envy how easily your top thread comes through when you pull the fabric out, even when I have the tension release button pressed its a big effort and I get to watch my needles bend when I pull the leather away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
texback Report post Posted April 13, 2015 I may have missed it somewhere, and this may not be the problem, but what size needle are you using with your 207 thread? Reason I ask is because I've had thread break when using too small a needle on my singer clone. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
venator Report post Posted April 13, 2015 The guys at Nick-O-Sew set it up for me when I told them what I was doing. The needle appears to say 23 and I'm using a 207 thread. They sent me a bunch of extra needles and they say 23. They told me they'd set it up for 207 thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leatherisfun Report post Posted April 13, 2015 Minimum size for 207 thread it #24 needle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
venator Report post Posted April 13, 2015 Minimum size for 207 thread it #24 needle Could well be the issue. However why wasn't in an issue before using the 207 thread? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted April 13, 2015 Since I have an iPhone 4 and clearly too much time on my hands (or procrastinating things I should be doing instead). I made a little video snippet using my iPhone 4 and recorded a making-of for your entertainment and education, haha. You don't want to hold the phone while you sew. My high-tech setup includes scotch tape dispenser and a AAA battery to adjust the angle of the phone. Touch and hold the part of the screen you want to be in focus until the focus lock and AE lock message appears. Then start recording, then start sewing.Actually, it would be interesting to see your machine turn without a thread and without the drive belt connected. It should turn by handwheel quite easily and not snag or bind at any time during a full cycle.It's easy to miss a bind if the motor just powers past it. If you turn by hand it will be very obvious if there is resistance at some point due to parts touching or rubbing.Making-of how-to video is here: https://youtu.be/twl_V_vlq2Q iPhone 4 close-up is here: http://youtu.be/S0YaHrA0aqQ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SARK9 Report post Posted April 13, 2015 Hi Uwe- In the video you posted....the latch opener on that machine looks like it needs adjusting....proving that a video DOES help diagnose this sort of issue! -DC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted April 14, 2015 I've seen a few needle/thread charts and they don't always agree. There's a number of factors that determine if a needle/thread combo will work or not. The chart at Toledo Ind. Sewing Machine's website indicates you might be okay with a 207/23 combination: http://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html But if using a 24 needle solves the problem, you're golden! Alas, I also once had an issue with the hole in the inner sewing presser foot getting too small for a particular needle/thread combo, causing the thread to fray. Changing out the presser foot for one with a slightly bigger hole fixed that problem. Another time I had a brand new presser foot and it had some rough edges at the bottom, again causing the thread to fray and break at times. Smoothing the bottom of the presser foot with very fine sand paper solved that problem. I'd also recommend pulling the thread loose at the top tension and alternating this with pulling out the material, at the end of a seam. If you inadvertently bend the needle just a little by pulling hard, it may cause trouble. Proper spacing between needle and hook is often about the thickness of one sheet of paper, and any excessive bending of the needle will surely mess that spacing up. (Almost) Last point is to hold both loose threads firmly for the first few stitches. It makes it less likely that loose thread underneath the material will cause trouble a few stitches into the seam. Now I'll go and look up what a latch opener is and what adjustment my machine may need, haha. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
texback Report post Posted April 14, 2015 Only thing I can tell you is if you don't use a large enough needle to accommodate the size thread you are using you will have problems.....ie ugly stitches, thread breakage, etc. Just because you can fit a thread thru the eye of the needle doesn't mean it's the right size needle. At least this has been my experience. If you were using a smaller thread before then you have your answer. You might try 138 in the bobbin to see if this fixes the problem or go with a larger needle. Either or both are cheap alternatives compared to getting a tech to check it out. Like Wiz said, I would try to eliminate every simple possibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leatherisfun Report post Posted April 14, 2015 The thing is that those charts were created from the experience of those who came before us and is a good guide to go by. I'm a believer because I had issues with needle/thread combination until I followed it. That isn't to say that there aren't times when you can get away with breaking the rules. However going by the chart is a great way of eliminating one avenue, making it easier to solve the problem at hand. I have done this, turn the needle the wrong way, not install the foot all the way up the shaft and then I was wondering why . Little things that might not be associated with your issue but something to consider nonetheless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
venator Report post Posted April 14, 2015 Well I will go buy some larger needles in the next few days, it's a shame that all the sewing stores are open 0900-1800 and I work 0900-1700 and it's at least an hour drive after work so I can't ever get to the damn things. Plus I'm currently working 7 days a week so I can't even make saturdays. Bah so frustrating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SARK9 Report post Posted April 14, 2015 >>Now I'll go and look up what a latch opener is and what adjustment my machine may need, haha.<<, Errr... bobbin case opening lever. Error Level: Brain shorthand. -DC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TinkerTailor Report post Posted April 14, 2015 One other thing to do before opening the wAllet is use a dental mirror and flashlight to look for threads and bits of fabric jammed up under there. It's amazing the havoc one inch of thread can create if it's in the wrong place. Look for gunk stick in the tensioners too. Maybe a deep clean is all it needs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
venator Report post Posted April 15, 2015 So I just wanted to thnk everyone for the opinions, suggestions, help, and support, you folks are fantastic. I picked up some size 24 needles today, non-leather but titanium. The breakage is way way way down. Now the thread breaks maybe every 5th time I reverse. Much better. Showing the video to their tech/mechanic he thinks it's an issue with the timing on the machine. Thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
