Here we go. saddle tree test. Carbon fiber verses hide

[SITTINGUPHIGH1]

I agree with you doing a wood and raw hide tree. It would start me off on the right track. It's funny I wasn't looking to build a tree and saddle. But I was looking for a good saddle for my horse. And found out most the factory saddle and some custom built ones didn't fit my horse at all. I had to build a custom templet of his back out for plexiglass to find this out. My horse is a very fine looking animal nothing that different. He is a performance horse. Strong and agile. Just a bigger horse then the normal about 16.2. Just a lot of bad saddle out there. When you ride hard and long there is no getting around not having a good saddle.

[Elton Joorisity]

Sounds to me like you were looking in all the wrong places to find a saddle that fit!?!?!

Edited December 10, 2008 by Elton Joorisity

[steveh]

Mort,

Do you have some photos to post of the custom plexiglass template you designed,it maybe usefull tool for tree makers?What type of riding do you do, ranching, rodeo , or trail?

Steve

[steveh]

Mort, What are the indications that your saddles are not fitting? Withers, bar profile on the loins, sores, white spots?

[Tosch]

Mort,

maybe you just shouldn`t saddle on the shoulder.

Tosch

[SITTINGUPHIGH1]

Well Steve my horse for one thing drops his rear when I put the saddle on. My horse gets sores on the beginning of the wither down on the sides. Right pass the wither pocket. I know the saddle is sitting in the right spot. The tree doesn't have a good cup to it and the bar is way to strait. The angle is to sharp on the bar also.

I am making a new templet because he grew again. So his back has changed again. I hope he stops growing. He is about 5 1/2 years old. As soon as I as do I will post it. I think so far it's the best way to see if a saddle will fit your horse. If you buying off the rack. My saddle did fit him tell he grew from 15.3 to 16.2.

I ride what I call endurance/trail. 8 to 10 hours a day. Sometimes three days strait. I do mountian rides that climb to 11,000 feet or more. Then I do endurance rides that I trott and run with my horse. He gets ridden at least three time a week at home about 3 to 8 hours at one ride.

The thing I found threw my testing is and observing others. Most saddles don't fit the horse. Most of those are factory production. You have to get lucky or not ride more then 2 hours a week. Poor horses.

[rgerbitz]

Mort,

Tosch made a good point, and aside from having a crap saddle, another mistake that is commonly made is putting the saddle in the wrong spot. In the picture you posted your saddle is sitting up on the shoulder. Good saddle or bad, not to many horses will tolerate that for very long. You might want to do some research on the what, why, and where a saddle should sit.

Rob

[greg gomersall]

Mort a horse's back never quits changing. His back will be different when he was 3, now when he is near 6 and will be different when he is 11 and 21. the differences might be subtle or they could be extreme there is no way to know ahead. you get a tree made for the body type and then blanket accordingly. Heck a 50 pound weight change in your horse will reflect in the fit. A good horseman has learned to pay attention to the little things while others turn to gimmicks to solve thier so called problems. Greg

[SITTINGUPHIGH1]

Yes Greg horses do change as weight changes and there age. That brings up one of the problems with classical western saddle. There to unflexiable to these changes. I don't think the flexiable tree is the answer. Nether is padding up a horse. I feel a some kind of flexiable padding under the sheep skin may solve that problem. It would be finding the right meterial. Althought if a horse changes to much you have to change the saddle tree. Having saddles that the saddle tree can be changed fairly easy would be a plus.

Threw my studies I have found very few people have taken the time as I have to learn about the horse and the saddle. There is very little information out there. You have to piece it together your self. The more I have learned the more I see to learn and discover. Never ending.

[steve mason]

Yes Greg horses do change as weight changes and there age. That brings up one of the problems with classical western saddle. There to unflexiable to these changes. I don't think the flexiable tree is the answer. Nether is padding up a horse. I feel a some kind of flexiable padding under the sheep skin may solve that problem. It would be finding the right meterial. Althought if a horse changes to much you have to change the saddle tree. Having saddles that the saddle tree can be changed fairly easy would be a plus.

Threw my studies I have found very few people have taken the time as I have to learn about the horse and the saddle. There is very little information out there. You have to piece it together your self. The more I have learned the more I see to learn and discover. Never ending.

Most of my customers are cowboys,who have spent their entire life learning to be horsemen, which means they know how to pad accordingly depending on the horse they are riding and depending on the condition of the horse, if you pick good customers, saddle fit is not much of a problem, when you are building on top quality trees fit is not the problem, the problem is usually the gunsel saddling the horse not the tree or the saddle. If you market towards top quality customers you will only have to build top quality saddles or trees, if you market gimmick saddles or trees you will always have poor quality customers and therefore you will end up making poor quality saddles or trees. Basically try build for top hands, therefore you will have to build top qualtiy gear or you will be out of business.

In regards to building a saddle that is flexiable or that can have the tree changed or any other gimmick is pure BS, any good saddle maker that I have ever met or heard of does not try to reinvent the wheel, they try to perfect the the techniques that have been proven for over a 100 years, building top quality saddles on trees made of wood and rawhide. this is what works and what will work in the furture, it is proven. maybe we all should quit trying to reinvent the wheel and just try to learn how to build good saddles or trees.

maybe this is the Glenmorangie that I have been drinking tonight speaking but it seems as if you are trying to put a burr under our pads with every post you make, if this is not the case I appologize, but that is how I read your posts, I got a little scotch in my system so I might just be looking for a fight.

Steve

Edited December 13, 2008 by steve mason

[Alan Bell]

Mort, This is the problem that you are having and that you are now trying to pass on to others that to my estimation have gone above and beyond in their effort to help and guide you with their experience and knowledge. in your last post you stated "Threw my studies I have found very few people have taken the time as I have to learn about the horse and the saddle." You think you know! Well I can assure you that is certainly not the case! AS a matter of fact the opposite is true and QUITE A FEW people have taken the time to learn about the horse and saddle! (and some of them can spell) (LORD, I apologize!) So now I would ask you to quantify your vast studies. How many years have you been studying this issue? How many horses have you studied? How many different breeds? How many different types? How many different types of saddles? I know you can not be exact (unless the numbers are quite small) but just give rough estimations. Hopefully we are not all wrapped up in this deal over you trying to fit this ONE horse! Many on here are lifelong horsemen and makers some have 20 + yrs as gear makers. Some of us still get horseback too and not just logging time but actually wrangling livestock which is what the Western Saddle you are finding so many flaws with was actually designed to do. You should probably be looking towards a top end ENDURANCE saddle. (You probably already knew that because of the time you've taken to study and learn) It's hard to add to a glass that is already full!

Vaya con Dios, Alan Bell

[greg gomersall]

Mort, This is the problem that you are having and that you are now trying to pass on to others that to my estimation have gone above and beyond in their effort to help and guide you with their experience and knowledge. in your last post you stated "Threw my studies I have found very few people have taken the time as I have to learn about the horse and the saddle." You think you know! Well I can assure you that is certainly not the case! AS a matter of fact the opposite is true and QUITE A FEW people have taken the time to learn about the horse and saddle! (and some of them can spell) (LORD, I apologize!) So now I would ask you to quantify your vast studies. How many years have you been studying this issue? How many horses have you studied? How many different breeds? How many different types? How many different types of saddles? I know you can not be exact (unless the numbers are quite small) but just give rough estimations. Hopefully we are not all wrapped up in this deal over you trying to fit this ONE horse! Many on here are lifelong horsemen and makers some have 20 + yrs as gear makers. Some of us still get horseback too and not just logging time but actually wrangling livestock which is what the Western Saddle you are finding so many flaws with was actually designed to do. You should probably be looking towards a top end ENDURANCE saddle. (You probably already knew that because of the time you've taken to study and learn) It's hard to add to a glass that is already full!

Vaya con Dios, Alan Bell

Mort Alan is right take the glass and have a few long slow swallows. greg

[Alan Bell]

Hey Mort, I just thought of another thing. Your horse or any horse for that matter should not "drop his rear" when you saddle up. I'm not even sure what that means but I imagine that the horse is basically trying to dodge the weight of the saddle and since your saddle does not appear to be very heavy I would guess (from my years of learning about horses and saddles) that your horse has some sort of chiropractic issues and is trying to tell you of this in the only language the horse has. Part of this may have been created by not having a saddle that fits properly and how you sit the saddle can be a contributing factor. Also, when riding on endurance trails over varied terrain how you transverse certain areas can affect this too. The horse will generally give the human its all even when contrary to the horses well being and will do things like lope on the wrong lead when going along a trail that is sideways to a up and down hill and throw its shoulder or hip out just because its rider set it up on the wrong lead. It may have tossed its head or swished its tail and the rider ignored these signals and asked the horse and the horse complied. Not saying you did this just giving examples. If my horses do not stand rock solid for saddling and mounting (I do not like to HAVE to tie a horse to a rail or a hitching post to saddle up) then there is something my horse is trying to tell me. It may just want to hang out with its pasture mates or it may actually have a physical ailment and it is MY JOB to determine what my horse is saying and to respond in the correct manner. Anyways, it may be that no matter the saddle your horse may have other issues that need to be addressed. Just something to consider "for the horse".

Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell

[SITTINGUPHIGH1]

I hope your party went will Alan. Cheers.

[greg gomersall]

I hope your party went will Alan. Cheers.

Mort it was not Alan that was having the party it was Steve. If you would take the time to read the posts you might be able to understand the information everybody has been kind enough to try to relay to you. Greg

[rickybobby]

Yes Greg horses do change as weight changes and there age. That brings up one of the problems with classical western saddle. There to unflexiable to these changes. I don't think the flexiable tree is the answer. Nether is padding up a horse. I feel a some kind of flexiable padding under the sheep skin may solve that problem. It would be finding the right meterial. Althought if a horse changes to much you have to change the saddle tree. Having saddles that the saddle tree can be changed fairly easy would be a plus.

Threw my studies I have found very few people have taken the time as I have to learn about the horse and the saddle. There is very little information out there. You have to piece it together your self. The more I have learned the more I see to learn and discover. Never ending.

[oldtimer]

Mort it was not Alan that was having the party it was Steve. If you would take the time to read the posts you might be able to understand the information everybody has been kind enough to try to relay to you. Greg

/ Knut

[Saddlebag]

Saddle trees date way back to the time of Genghis Khan. His soldiers carried three trees to accommodate the shape of their ponies from spring fat to late fall when they were lean and hard. Carbon fiber is used in higher end fishing rods which have to have flex and strength. I can't see that a carbon fiber tree would be worse than a Ralide the the pro would be it's light weight and strength. As we get older saddles seem to get heavier, especially for women, and there's a huge market for 50+ riders.