Members Constabulary Posted May 9, 2015 Members Report Posted May 9, 2015 My 2 large singer "oil pumps" never fail! But my machines do not run in a factory environment. Anyway - I´d say manual oiling from time to time are not a bad idea even when you have an oil pump on your machines. Question is do these oil pumps work at slow speed at all? Meaning are they probably useless when you are working with leather / sewing at very slow speed? If this is the case you should consider manual oiling in general. Quote ~ Keep "OLD CAST IRON" alive - it´s worth it ~ Machines in use: - Singer 111G156 - Singer 307G2 - Singer 29K71 - Singer 212G141 - Singer 45D91 - Singer 132K6 - Singer 108W20 - Singer 51WSV2 - Singer 143W2
Members shoepatcher Posted May 9, 2015 Members Report Posted May 9, 2015 The Adler 467 and 767 only really pump oil if the machine is run over 2500 rpm so manually oiling the machines is good if you are sewing at slow speeds. The new 867 machines oiling system will pump ail at any speed. A much better system. glenn Quote
Members gottaknow Posted May 9, 2015 Author Members Report Posted May 9, 2015 The problem with manually oiling the top shaft of the 467 is there's no access without removing the top and end cover. I will likely drill some strategic holes or install a top reservoir with some routing of wick tubes much like the old Singer 111's. Their is some damage due to lack of oil on this machine. I'm convinced now that an oil without an anti corrosion element was used for a long time. Regards, Eric Quote
Contributing Member TwinOaks Posted May 9, 2015 Contributing Member Report Posted May 9, 2015 This topic has so much incredibly detailed and valuable info in it that it has been "pinned". Access to the topic won't change (at least not yet), but it will likely be at the top of the 'leather sewing machines' sub-forum. Thank you Eric, for sharing your knowledge and skill with us. Quote Mike DeLoach Esse Quam Videri (Be rather than Seem) "Don't learn the tricks of the trade.....Learn the trade." "Teach what you know......Learn what you don't." LEATHER ARTISAN'S DIGITAL GUILD on Facebook.
Members gottaknow Posted May 10, 2015 Author Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 Ok, here's the pics that go with the earlier description of the oil issues. Oil to an industrial machine is like blood in our bodies. I've seen upholstery shops kill a new machine in very short order due to lack of oil. In the factory, we pay very close attention to oil. Not only the fill levels, but making sure the pumps are working. A machine sewing just half a day at high speed will seize. On the machines that require a higher rpm, the operator have to wind a few bobbins a day at high speed, rather than when they're sewing. The Juki 5410's will seize in less than a day if the top shaft is dry and the operator is sewing full speed. Machines that are purchased and used for leather, seldom see much speed. It's important to understand the oiling system. It's the first thing I do when I purchase a new machine. Anyway, the pics are attached below for the 467. It's easy to see the oil issues throughout the machine. I really think the wrong oil was used in this machine for a long time. There shouldn't be that much corrosion in a closed sump. As I stated earlier, any machine that uses a closed splash sump, needs to have oil with an anti-foaming agent. If the oil foams, it heats up and the chemical properties begin to change. At that point, it's not oil and leaves the type of residue I've seen through out this machine. When I have time to come up with a satisfactory fix, I'll document what I decided to do. At this point, I still think this machine will be useable, but with some added maintenance items to pay attention to. I'm very conservative with the use of solvent to clean newer machines that have sealed bearings. You can't replace the grease. As for the leaky lower shaft seals, unless the shafts are removed and the seals replaced, they will keep leaking. The timing belt will need to be kept somewhat clean to extend it's life. As a footnote, the timing belt on this machine is kinda whimpy. The rest of the machine is a rock. Regards, Eric Quote
Members TinkerTailor Posted May 10, 2015 Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 I thought wrong oil might be part of it. Sturmey-archer bicycle hubs are oil bath and over half the probs I see are due to wrong oil gumming up the works. Ironically the problem is someone put in sewing machine oil....I use ATF because it has detergents and antifoam agents and oes not varnish up. I have often wondered if ATF would also work in sewing machines. It's close to the same viscosity and rpm ranges in an auto trans. It's also designed to not change properties with heat. Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
Uwe Posted May 10, 2015 Report Posted May 10, 2015 A disconnected oil line will create some havoc regardless of the oil used, I imagine. It would be super useful to get a list of a few "good" oils, that are still commercially available (ideally on Amazon or my local AutoZone) identified by brand and item name/number. Also, a list of (corrosive?) oils to positively avoid may be equally useful. Or will this set off a near-religious war of the oils? I've come across many references to "Lily White" oil and even ordered some from ZipperStop for my SunStar sump machine. But I've realized the term simply refers to the clear color and says very little about the chemical formulation. Is there an original "Lily White" oil by some manufacturer? Automatic transmission fluid (ATF) may be a great choice but I can't get over having everything in sight stained red. I've read blogs recommend fully synthetic 0W20 oil, but the one I bought to try looked like maple syrup in coloring. I use rather expensive Tri-Flow to manually oil my machines - it was recommended by my local sewing store. Another youtube sewing tech highly recommended Marvel Mystery oil, saying it was developed for sewing machines originally but later marketed for automotive use to actually make money. It's very confusing, what with additives, detergents, anti-foaming agents, synthetic or not. It seems we should have a sticky post with a list of definitive sewing machine oil recommendations. Quote Uwe (pronounced "OOH-vuh" ) Links: Videos
Members gottaknow Posted May 10, 2015 Author Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 This is the oil I use in all my machines. (see attached pdf) We have to use oil that we can clean out of fabrics with dry cleaning spot remover. This is really a great oil. Juki approves of its use in all their new machines and it doesn't void the warranty. I don't experiment with oils, it's too important. I'll actually use the same oil to help clean this 467 and stop the corrosion. Regards, Eric 4991.pdf Quote
Members TinkerTailor Posted May 10, 2015 Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 tri-flow is much more affordable in gallon jugs. The bike shop can order them for you if you use it regularly. Don't get me wrong, its not wd40 on sale cheap. In canada its $9.50 for a 2 oz bottle and $190/gallon. That's $1.40/oz...still expensive but much better. Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
Members TinkerTailor Posted May 10, 2015 Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 This is the oil I use in all my machines. (see attached pdf) We have to use oil that we can clean out of fabrics with dry cleaning spot remover. This is really a great oil. Juki approves of its use in all their new machines and it doesn't void the warranty. I don't experiment with oils, it's too important. I'll actually use the same oil to help clean this 467 and stop the corrosion. Regards, Eric Interesting that you saw rust and evidence of foaming in the 476 and your lily white oils msds sheet says water in the oil could cause frothing.........just an observation...There shouldn't be water in there anyways.... Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
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