chip carving on leather

[UKRay]

I just don't see that your hour of creativity produced anything that couldn't be better done in ten minutes.

Slick, perhaps you didn't understand that the design was not the object of the exercise? I have a huge amount of respect for Roo and the stuff she produces - not because it is necessarily technically excellent or even that it is elegant or useful (although it is usually all those things) - simply because it makes me think of new ways to do things. I don't always make things that are functional - sometimes leatherwork is about the look and feel of something beautiful - not just about how many pounds of horseflesh it will hold down. Let me be explicit: from where I sit leatherworking isn't simply about the next bit of fancy-assed Sheridan carving (no matter how beautifully it is done) or yet another acanthus leaf belt clone - after a thousand identical craftaid inspired carvings the design becomes stale. Leather isn't just for western saddles, boots or the tops of rodeo chaps - I see western style leatherwork all the time and, because so much is simply duplicating old designs, a lot of it makes me yawn. IMHO, leatherwork is a living craft that is still developing world wide (yes, even in Australia and the UK). If you are prepared to open your mind to new ideas then there is a wealth of learning to be had here. Suggesting that creativity is all about using leather stamps for pottery is insulting at best. Ray

[Luke Hatley]

:

Slick, perhaps you didn't understand that the design was not the object of the exercise? I have a huge amount of respect for Roo and the stuff she produces - not because it is necessarily technically excellent or even that it is elegant or useful (although it is usually all those things) - simply because it makes me think of new ways to do things. I don't always make things that are functional - sometimes leatherwork is about the look and feel of something beautiful - not just about how many pounds of horseflesh it will hold down. Let me be explicit: from where I sit leatherworking isn't simply about the next bit of fancy-assed Sheridan carving (no matter how beautifully it is done) or yet another acanthus leaf belt clone - after a thousand identical craftaid carvings the design becomes stale. Leather isn't just for western saddles, boots or the tops of rodeo chaps - I see western style leatherwork all the time and, because so much is simply duplicating old designs, a lot of it makes me yawn. IMHO, leatherwork is a living craft that is still developing world wide (yes, even in Australia and the UK). If you are prepared to open your mind to new ideas then there is a wealth of learning to be had here. Suggesting that creativity is all about using leather stamps for pottery is insulting at best. Ray

[Hilly]

:

Edited January 18, 2010 by Hilly

[CitizenKate]

I don't know how I missed this when you originally posted it, Roo. Guess I've got Slick to thank for finally getting to notice it. I have been considering trying the same thing, and I am always excited to see something I haven't seen a million times already. Though there is always room for refinement, fresh ideas and new techniques will always be welcome here, even if some people fail to comprehend the value of them.

Kate

[WyomingSlick]

Oh dear, did I stir up a bunch of tincan knights to ride to the lady's defense. I believe the lady posted on here to get honest reactions. And I gave one. So what is the problem with that? The way you all come on, a person would think you know little or nothing about leatherwork through the ages. Basically what she did there is a geometric pattern which is about as old of a leatherworking decoration method as you can get once mankind progressed past painting simple depictions of nature on hides. Most all of the Moorish leatherwork is of a geometric desgn due to religious constrictions. As was their woodwork, where much of the roots of chip carving in wood lie. Those Moorish designs are also the root of where many of the tools we term "geometric" come from. Every element of her design can be found in leather stamps. The flower is nothing special, it is just the reverse of a McMillen pattern from the old days, and the triangles are to be found as a segment of other McMillen geometric stamps. See attachment. Peter is somewhat correct is saying I couldn't ptoduce the effect with conventional tooling. That is true since I would have to take a modeling tool and screw up the impressions some to make it as uneven and primitive as hers is. But I could produce an even and much more attractive representation of the design with stamping tools

Actually, I find it kind of amusing as I see some of the folks replying to this thread, are the same ones who went on and on about how they have to use high dollar custom basketweaves and other geometrics to produce that "crisp" impression and then they turn around and slam me for pointing out that this looks "primitive". Go soak your heads!

My point was and still remains: that the product of the lady's effort was not worth the time to produce it. I have been an admirer of many differant styles of wood carving since I was a small boy. I was born overseas in Afghanistan, and when my family returned to the States we brought many examples of Afghan and Indian craftwork home with us. Some of the woodcarved item would be classified as primitive but each still has an intrinsic beauty and is a fine example of what a man can do with simple tools. As for tooling leather by using a knife to incise a design into the leather; been there, tried that.....a long time ago. Several problems with the process besides the factor of it weakening the leather. The leather has to relatively thick for much of an effect. Knives have to be razor sharp, and even then, are still difficult to control. Leather has to be fastened down since the force used is a sideways one. And when you are all done, still not so attractive. It is not real hard to see why such a process has not "caught on". This lady was not the first to try this, and I am sure I wasn't the first. I wasn't putting the artist down here, I was just saying I think the process is not very workable for leather. I have eyes to see and most of her work is very admirable. Her dragon motorcycle seat was vey impressive. This doesn't fall in that category.

Then there seems to be some opinions that I don't know art or have no appreciation for "thinking outside the box."

I realize that some people think Andy Warhol's painting of a Campbell soup can is fine art, but I will take a Leonardo or a Renoir anyday over that kind of stuff. Picasso? Hah, I think the guy's brain was addled by too much Madeira.

LOL While I'm on the subject of appraising work by an artist, I see some leatherwork on here that is praised as good when it is actually as bad or worse then some 9 year olds first effort. There's nothing wrong with encouragement, but then there is no value in praise for it's own sake. In fact I would say it is harmful to praise something that is unworthy.

[RWB]

Oh dear, did I stir up a bunch of tincan knights to ride to the lady's defense. I believe the lady posted on here to get honest reactions. And I gave one. So what is the problem with that? The way you all come on, a person would think you know little or nothing about leatherwork through the ages. Basically what she did there is a geometric pattern which is about as old of a leatherworking decoration method as you can get once mankind progressed past painting simple depictions of nature on hides. Most all of the Moorish leatherwork is of a geometric desgn due to religious constrictions. As was their woodwork, where much of the roots of chip carving in wood lie. Those Moorish designs are also the root of where many of the tools we term "geometric" come from. Every element of her design can be found in leather stamps. The flower is nothing special, it is just the reverse of a McMillen pattern from the old days, and the triangles are to be found as a segment of other McMillen geometric stamps. See attachment. Peter is somewhat correct is saying I couldn't ptoduce the effect with conventional tooling. That is true since I would have to take a modeling tool and screw up the impressions some to make it as uneven and primitive as hers is. But I could produce an even and much more attractive representation of the design with stamping tools

Actually, I find it kind of amusing as I see some of the folks replying to this thread, are the same ones who went on and on about how they have to use high dollar custom basketweaves and other geometrics to produce that "crisp" impression and then they turn around and slam me for pointing out that this looks "primitive". Go soak your heads!

My point was and still remains: that the product of the lady's effort was not worth the time to produce it. I have been an admirer of many differant styles of wood carving since I was a small boy. I was born overseas in Afghanistan, and when my family returned to the States we brought many examples of Afghan and Indian craftwork home with us. Some of the woodcarved item would be classified as primitive but each still has an intrinsic beauty and is a fine example of what a man can do with simple tools. As for tooling leather by using a knife to incise a design into the leather; been there, tried that.....a long time ago. Several problems with the process besides the factor of it weakening the leather. The leather has to relatively thick for much of an effect. Knives have to be razor sharp, and even then, are still difficult to control. Leather has to be fastened down since the force used is a sideways one. And when you are all done, still not so attractive. It is not real hard to see why such a process has not "caught on". This lady was not the first to try this, and I am sure I wasn't the first. I wasn't putting the artist down here, I was just saying I think the process is not very workable for leather. I have eyes to see and most of her work is very admirable. Her dragon motorcycle seat was vey impressive. This doesn't fall in that category.

Then there seems to be some opinions that I don't know art or have no appreciation for "thinking outside the box."

I realize that some people think Andy Warhol's painting of a Campbell soup can is fine art, but I will take a Leonardo or a Renoir anyday over that kind of stuff. Picasso? Hah, I think the guy's brain was addled by too much Madeira.

LOL While I'm on the subject of appraising work by an artist, I see some leatherwork on here that is praised as good when it is actually as bad or worse then some 9 year olds first effort. There's nothing wrong with encouragement, but then there is no value in praise for it's own sake. In fact I would say it is harmful to praise something that is unworthy.

Wow. Maybe a little more tact next time would be in order. Al Stolman doesn't have the corner market on leather.

Ross

[UKRay]

Well, Slick, I'm impressed. I didn't think it was possible to be more opinionated, inconsiderate and condescending that you were in your first post but you have proven me wrong. Congratulations! Ray

[Hilly]

Well, Slick, I'm impressed. I didn't think it was possible to be more opinionated, inconsiderate and condescending that you were in your first post but you have proven me wrong. Congratulations! Ray

Ray, I believe the word you were looking for is TROLL.

[RWB]

Well, Slick, I'm impressed. I didn't think it was possible to be more opinionated, inconsiderate and condescending that you were in your first post but you have proven me wrong. Congratulations! Ray

It's amazing how people have a tendency of doing that, isn't it Ray? Just when you think a line has been crossed. BAM!! Someone jumps over it.

Ross

[leatheroo]

Wow...an old post comes back from the grave!!!! The point of the exercise was to try something different....to explore techniques.. .so it looked crappy....perfection was not the point.

Does the technique work....probable not...i havent tried it again....but this failed exercise wont stop me trying new techniques and exploring new ways to manipulate leather and then asking for constructive criticism and suggestions.

cheers to my knights in shining armour!!!!!