Order Of Operations

[onlyoblivion]

So I've been practicing! I am feeling more confident with building patterns and stitching, but i find myself stymied usually by two things: User error and order of operations. The former will take practice, and the latter seems to differ by person. So what is your order, and why? Right now mine is as follows, but it needs help

Transfer pattern

Cut

Attempt to still fit pieces together despite cruddy cutting job

Glue

Sand edges

Run stitch groover

Slowly, tediously, imperfectly keep stitch spacer in groove. Fail.

Drill stitch holes (yes I know this is frowned on, but lets leave that for another debate)

Burnish with water slightly

Stitch

Then what?

[dirtclod]

1 Trace pattern,

2 cut out

3 check fit,

4 stitch grove if you use one,

5 mark stitches,

6 make stiching holes (if you going to drill them) or make them with a awl

7 stitch ( if your dyeing do that before you stitch),

8 sand edges after it's togeather,

9 burnish,

10 put finish on,

11 set back and admire / see what needs to be better next time

12 sell it, give it away or keep it so you see how much you have improved in a couple of months

[zuludog]

This is my sequence for making a one piece knife sheath from 3.5mm veg tanned leather

Make a pattern from stiff paper

Transfer to leather & mark out

Cut, including the welt (alright, that's two pieces!)

Fold over, check & adjust the fit, hold with clamps if necessary

I don't usually do any skiving on sheaths, but obviously this is the stage for it if you need to

Dye?

Sew the tail end of the hanging loop to the back of the sheath, as this will be inaccessible soon

Glue

Trim & even up the edges with a sharp knife

Make the stitching line with a groover. If you are using ready dyed leather, might want to dye the groove

Bevel the edges?

Dye?

Use a stitching chisel to both set the distances & make the holes. Tidy them up or finish them with an awl if necessary

Sew with saddle stitch

Bevel the edges?

Tidy edges fully with sharp knife & sandpaper

Apply gum tragacanth to the edges

Burnish the edges

Apply edge dye

Burnish the edges

Apply whatever leather oil or grease is your usual treatment

As 11 above.

Note that you can fit in bevelling & dyeing as I have indicated, to suit you or the work. A look at tutorials, and videos on YouTube will give you the professional version.

If you have problems using a stitch marking wheel you could try a pricking iron instead. And if you have difficulty using an awl you could use a stitching chisel as this will both set the spaces and make the holes

If you have problems with a marking wheel and an awl I wonder if you have got the Tandy starter set? The 4-in-1 awl in that set isn't very good. Keep it for the scratch/round awl, but get a simple fixed blade saddler's/harness awl. I'm sure someone would tell you a suitable American supplier

Do a bit of searching on YouTube, especially Nigel Armitage

Edited May 26, 2015 by zuludog

[Dwight]

So I've been practicing! I am feeling more confident with building patterns and stitching, but i find myself stymied usually by two things: User error and order of operations. The former will take practice, and the latter seems to differ by person. So what is your order, and why? Right now mine is as follows, but it needs help

Transfer pattern

Cut

Attempt to still fit pieces together despite cruddy cutting job

Glue

Sand edges

Run stitch groover

Slowly, tediously, imperfectly keep stitch spacer in groove. Fail.

Drill stitch holes (yes I know this is frowned on, but lets leave that for another debate)

Burnish with water slightly

Stitch

Then what?

If I may, . . . I adjusted your order, . . . highlighting one item: I learned this from my mother.

She was a quilter, . . . one of the best I've ever known or seen. She would throw away a piece, . . . or a whole stack of pieces, . . . rather than try to "Attempt to still fit pieces together despite cruddy cutting job".

The cutting will always make or break your project, . . . lousy cutting = lousy finished product, . . . good cutting = good finished product, . . . excellent, and carefully done cutting = excellent, and carefully done final product.

Get that under your belt, . . . then you can worry about the rest, . . . which IMHO looked pretty good.

But also, . . . the "order" will always be determined by the desired final piece. Order for a pair of boots is far different from a billfold.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

What Dwight said: "The cutting will make or break your project.. . ." I've said that very thing for years, and it applies to EVERY project. If the cutting is poor, there is no step in the process that can make it better. Practice, practice, practice, with a GOOD knife.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Just to reiterate, like Sioux said a "GOOD KNIFE". Can't stress this point enough. High quality blade yields nice smooth exact cuts. Get the best knife you can afford and keep it scary sharp, go slow, and keep your fingers out of the way!

Bob

[LumpenDoodle2]

Agree about the cutting. If you've got the parts badly cut out, you can very seldom, if ever, really pull things back into shape.

You either have to think on your feet and adapt the item you're making, or start again.

I have a book, and when I start a project (either out of material, or leather) I list the order I made it. Saves that moment when you haven't made something in a while, and you can't remember the order of work.

Also, making a toile (as it's called in sewing) or mock-up of the project out of paper/cardboard is a good idea.

[onlyoblivion]

You guys are super great! Thanks a bunch for your comments!

Let me see if I am picking up what you guys are laying down so kindlly ,

1. different projects require differing order, gotcha! I know doing rivets and such differ in order by project. I think after reading your responses that perhaps its the finishing that I'm unsure what the sequence is. Probably because I have read a million posts on it, and watched videos, and everyone uses different products, so I am not sure exactly what each does in the finishing process. I have pretty much what I found at hobby lobby. Gum Trag, beeswax, and 4 Way Care. I also have eco-flow dyes (I know... I know, But I got Fiebings black, which I guess is NOT the same as USMC Black, arg) and Super Shene but don't like the finish the last gives.

Anyway, It seems like different leathers I use respond very differently to my attempts at burnishing and finishing. I'd like to do better.

2. YES! I totally am in agreement with the importance of cutting, but I struggle with it. Why do you think I sand after gluing?

Honestly, I measure a bunch, but usually botch the cut somewhere and have to do some improv routine to justify the leather use. I have an exacto set, which, frankly, I think is pretty bad at what it is supposed to do. I have also tried box cutter style blade, but was also not impressed. I most often use a rotary cutter for thinner stuff, and a pair of orange handled fiskars, sharpened by my husband. I'd sure like to blame my knife selections, but I thought one would work. What do you folks use? (Also, please tell me its not just me that has this issue!)

3. I think keeping a book is a great idea LumpenD! Maybe I will make a little binder with patterns and the notes on each. Luckily, I can manage to cut patterns out!!

I really appreciate all your feedback! Hard to convey in text, but communities like these make the rest of the internet worth putting up with , Thank you!

Edited May 27, 2015 by onlyoblivion

[Dwight]

Just to reiterate, like Sioux said a "GOOD KNIFE". Can't stress this point enough. High quality blade yields nice smooth exact cuts. Get the best knife you can afford and keep it scary sharp, go slow, and keep your fingers out of the way!

Bob

BondoBob knows whereof he speaks, . . . at least in my opinion.

I cannot afford a really high priced knife, . . . so I use a drywall knife. Looks like a box cutter in a way.

First thing I do when I put a new razor blade in it, . . . put that blade on my strop and sharpen/hone it.

Yeah, . . . scary sharp is a good definition, . . . and right now I've got a left index finger that wasn't fast enough a week or so ago. It happens.

But even so, . . . I still like leather work enough to buy bandages and razor blades.

And the drywall knife is my knife of choice. I have a number of other styles, . . . it is first and foremost, . . . my go-to knife for all my leatherwork.

May God bless,

Dwight

[zuludog]

This is my way of cutting leather; I've posted it a few times, but I hope other members won't mind seeing it again.

By chance, soon after I became interested in leatherwork I met a retired cobbler - in a pub, where else?! - and this is a summary of his advice.

Find a craft/utility/box cutter type of knife that you like and is comfortable to hold. In Britain we often call these after the best known make, a Stanley Knife. Find some blades that fit well without wobbling; that will usually mean a fixed blade knife, which is cheaper than a retractable anyway.

The blades are disposable, but seem to get better as you re-sharpen them.

Use this knife for cutting leather only

Mark the pattern with a scratch awl (hence the name!). The blade will follow the scratch, and then the previous cuts if you make more than one pass. The approved method is to cut all the way through in one pass, but it doesn't really matter if you need 2 or 3.

You will need a second knife which can be anything you like. Use it for opening parcels, cutting string, sharpening pencils, and so on. It's purpose is to make sure you use the first knife exclusively for cutting leather

"them green mats" are as good as anything he's ever used.

That's it. I've been using that for years, and it works

Sharpen the blades on a medium-to-fine oilstone or waterstone, and a strop

Play around with the search box on YouTube - cutting leather - leather knives - using a Japanese leather knife. There's a lot of information there, but it's all a bit fragmented. Nevertheless, if you can work through the videos it's a way of getting ideas and 'instant experience'. Can also do a similar search for sharpening knives

[zuludog]

There are other knives, such as a Japanese leather knife, and the traditional leatherworker's head knife, aka round knife, but only you can decide if you would like to try them, or pay the prices.

Make a simple sheath or slip cover to protect the blade edge, and to prevent it cutting the things you don't want - like fingers!

Whatever you get, you need to be able to get them very sharp. Search in YouTube for 'sharpening knives' . This video is interesting; although it describes wood chisels, the techniques can easily be used for knives.

'Preparing and sharpening a woodworking chisel - with Peter Sellers'.

Have you got a strop? They're easy enough to make from odd pieces of wood & leather; Surf for tutorials & videos on making & using.

Get your husband to buy you something - that's what they're for!

Edited May 27, 2015 by zuludog

[onlyoblivion]

Thank you all! I am improving on the cutting! I will try a utility knife next time, as I have several around and a few new blades. I havent tried it yet, because I wasn't sure how to navigate curvy cuts with one.

[LumpenDoodle2]

i've not long started marking out my patterns with a marker, then going over them with a scratch awl. It really does make a difference when cutting out, especially on curves.

Another thing I did was to cover the underside of my metal straight edge with a length of non slip matting that you get for kitchen shelves (the clear stuff). It cuts down the chances of the ruler moving off the line.

Edited May 30, 2015 by LumpenDoodle2

[zuludog]

A stanley knife with a very sharp blade should do for most cutting. The more you practice the more you will get better, neater, faster, and more confident

Try this method. Mark out the pattern with a pencil, then scratch awl, then a light cut, then firmer/heavier cuts

For very tight curves Tandy offer an Industrial Knife with 2 blades, #3595-00, but it's quite expensive at about £34 - $50? Not much point getting it till you've really tried a stanley knife as far as you can, especially as you already have one

I treated my straight edge in a similar way, except that I used some very thin garment leather

Have a browse through YouTube, especially Armitage Leather and Leodis Leather. You might not want to make specifically a wallet or a messenger bag, but those sorts of videos will show you most techniques

Edited May 30, 2015 by zuludog

[onlyoblivion]

Thank you all!

[byggyns]

my order with a holster will not fit everything else, but you may be able to draw some insight from it

• cut out patterns, leaving liner a little larger than the outer piece
• tool / stamp holster body (if any)
• dye, antique or highlight
• light oil with neatsfoot to restore what was stripped in dying process
• install any loops, straps, snaps, rivets
• glue liner to outer in stages: glue front of holster, start the fold over, glue rear of holster
• trim liner flush with front piece
• groove, mark & stitch liner to front in areas not folded over
• sand, edge bevel, dye, & burnish all edges not accessable when fully assembled
• glue stitched area for fold over
• mark stitches, saddle stitch
• sand stitched edges
• edge bevel, dye & burnish edges of folded over seam
• wet form to weapon, let dry completely
• buff to prevent dye rub-off
• apply finish (resolene), buff, repeat
• final buff with a little neutral shoe polish

Of course, different holster designs call for adding steps in certain places & moving the order around in others, but this is a basic list for a lined holster. Unlined, I just remove the steps relating to the liner. Knife sheaths are nearly the same, but I normally don't line those. 2 piece holsters don't get liners & don't require a fold, but will normally use a stiffener piece.