Getting A Feel For Clicker Services Needed.

[DoubleC]

I am getting a clicker next month and would like to offer services to other people as long as I don't get 20,000 LOL. I figured it took me 4 years to buy one and maybe some people just have one item they want clicked, like a bracelet. How it would work is like this I think. You would send me your die, tell me what kind of leather you wanted used and pay for me to order that, then from what I've seen so far is the service fee would be $1.00 per minute. If I click you out 4 bracelets in that minute then it would be 25 cents per bracelet plus the price of the leather. Now no matter clicker or not you need leather in this business. So you could get your bracelets in your favorite leather with the only difference being you wouldn't have to cut them. The initial outlay of money would be the die but at this price per product I don't see it taking long to recoup your money in time saved. I could also send the left over leather to you with your shipping price.

So again would you rather have someone hassle with it or do it yourself? Thanks, because I'm fairly certain I will be offering this service starting next month. Cheryl

[cgleathercraft]

For me It wouldn't make much sense to have clicker dies on hand that I can't use on my own. That said, if I run onto some at an auction I probably wouldn't pass them up if they went for a decent price.

Personally I'd be looking for a bulk pack of already clicked items (bracelets, keyfobs, other small items) that all I would need to do is tool, dye, finish, and assemble. Bulk pack quantities starting at 5 and going up to 100 would be good as they would service both small batches and large runs. And they could still be clicked out on an as needed basis. This does mean you would need a certain amount of overhead in leather. That by itself is another large hurdle with all different weights / types. Custom orders could be still be done this way with whatever leather a person wants.

I can see where someone would want to send their own die to you to get clicked. Just wouldn't work for my needs right now.

Best of luck! I'm interested to see what you come up with!

[DoubleC]

Hi CG. I will have my own dies of things like key fobs, bracelets, that sort of thing. I'm still going to be leatherworking too. It's just if someone wants a headstall clicked shaped like a sequoia tree, probably not going to have that on hand. I'm just feeling my way along here. I think a lot of people get annoyed at doing the small money makers over and over by hand. I know I do, There's only so may ways you can make a key fob and doing it over and over is boring when you're trying to take advantage of your time and cut several at a time. I'm hoping I can make this work but if not I still want a clicker for myself. Cheryl

[Halitech]

Only problem I see for me anyway, is the cost of shipping you the die and leather then paying to have it shipped back plus the time for shipping. Not saying that if you had a selection of dies available and I could buy the leather and have it shipped to you then just pay for shipping back to me that I wouldn't take advantage of it

[biglew]

if i lived closer I would use your service... but the cost of shipping would defeat the purpose.

I have a small tippman clicker... but need bigger. Eventually i hope to be able to get a nice swing arm press (might take years to save up for one) .....Its a shame I can't use the die presses at work for personal items... we have 8 including a couple really big ones

good luck... I will follow the thread to see your progress

Thanks

Lew

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

The reason I bought my clicker is so I wouldn't have to pay someone else to cut my parts. If someone has their own dies, chances are they're going to have a clicker of some sort as well. A big advantage of having a clicker and dies is to use up scrap on small items. Freight would eat the profits if someone had to send you their scrap, pay you $60 an hour to click, and then pay freight back. You may get some local business from hobby people that don't want to or can't make the investment of a clicker and dies, but I'd think pretty much anyone that would be producing in quantities that would justify a die would own their own clicker. Not saying it couldn't work for you, I just wouldn't count on it paying for your clicker very quickly. Google about any die-cut blanks you can think of, and there are thousands of folks like yourself hoping to make their clicker pay for itself. I think what you will run into more often is someone wanting you to pay to have a die made from their pattern, click a few pieces for them, and then "see ya!" If I sound cynical, it may be because I've been there and done that! But good luck to you!

[DoubleC]

well big sioux i know how some people can be so I understand. I think it will pay for itself in the time I save but whether I can make money on it remains to be seen. But anyone that buys a die has to pay postage to have it shipped to them, so that's not an additional cost. It just ships to me instead. I would keep the die for them until they needed more clicked items if they wanted me too. I think people are making this sound more difficult than it is. Cheryl

[JLSleather]

If someone has their own dies, chances are they're going to have a clicker of some sort as well. .. I'd think pretty much anyone that would be producing in quantities that would justify a die would own their own clicker. ... thousands of folks like yourself hoping to make their clicker pay for itself....

That sounds right. Must be the water in our neck o the woods

[ConradPark]

Double C, if your idea works for you, all the best. However around where I live (London), the studios that have clicker presses earn some extra money in the way that they rent them out hourly to whomever wants to drop by with their own leather and dies. Standard rate everywhere here is £10 an hour (clicking out wallets from five average hides doesn't even take 15min).

Also, would you send your dies to someone else to keep? Anyway, as I said, if it works for you, all the best. Good Luck.

[leatherwytch]

Things that must be considered.

1. Who is your competition

2. Price

3. Advertising

4 wear and tear on the machine

5 Do you or do they own the dies

6. Are you making them pay for the dies and how much.

7 shipping costs.

8. If you are clicking for them is your time included in the amount.

I would buy a clicker if I had the room, it would make all the repetitive stuff easier. I would then advertise the service. This however is a large city with many smaller cities within reach, where others may want said services.

Would I use such a service? I most certainly would if it was available for a decent price and timeline.

[DoubleC]

Well I see there's been some action on this post since I was here, I see. What started out as a simple poll has turned into a 'to click or not to click' question, LOL. Conrad if you can click out several hides for wallet parts in 15 minutes I think YOU should be a reseller. That doesn't seem possible to me but maybe it is and one kit would make your money back you spent clicking all of them.

Jeff as usual I don't know what you mean, must be the water around there.
Randi you bring up some very valid points some of which I'll try to answer in a post here. I simply wanted to see if there was an interest in clicked products. I seem to be getting everything but that answer although my psychic senses tell me there is I will put how I see the services working below in a post and maybe then you can judge better if you think the services will work. I really thank all of you and enjoy everyone's input. Cheryl

[DoubleC]

Big Lew I didn't answer your post and I apologize. i don't see where living in MI would make this more difficult for you. You order a die and have them ship it to me instead. But I like your idea about buying little things in batches I've already done. I intend to do that. Maybe I should just make this post the one where people 1/2 way understand what I'm going to do.

I'm buying a clicker next month. I'm buying it for myself so I can spend less time on cutting out small things over and over. A friend suggested I:

1. click for other people. This would include me having the die sent to me, storing it for the person and also using my dies if the person wanted. I could do t on any leather the person wanted but would raise the cost per sq. foot to the next even number. Meaning if someone wanted me to use Herman oak back for 8.99 it would cost them 10.00 a sq foot to have that done. If you want something in Milliflora don't think I'm going to charge $10.00 a sq. foot for that. If it's 18.99 then it would cost the customer 20.00 a sq foot. Or 14.99 would go to 15.00 so it wouldn't be that much of a handling charge. Because that's what it is. I am handling the leather, buying it up front assuming you're going to pay me, and storing the rest in rolls until you want more so I have to 'handle' it. Simple. You don't pay for what I click? That's simple I'll just use the leather myself and keep your die until you do. Like Sioux said, I won't be buying dies up front for people, that will be totally on the customer. I'll keep it for you, take care of it for you but I won't buy it for you. Too much room for error there. You know exactly hat you want get it made. So say you sent me a wallet die for Horween lather. At 15.00 a sq. foot assuming i could get two out of a sq. foot your cost would probably be 12.50 plus shipping. I'm assuming unlike my speedy friend above that it would take me 10 minutes to click out all the wallet parts getting the most use out of the leather. So it would be 1/2 the Horween sq ft. for one which makes it 7.50 plus 5 minutes for me to click out the parts for one wallet which is 5 more. This is not rocket science. The main costs to the customers is buying the dies. From then on they're not going to be able to make a Horween wallet cut out for $12.50.

2. People that wanna use my dies.I intend to have dies for several different projects that I do, guitar strap ends, guitar strap punched slots, bracelets, cuffs,wallets, interiors, geometric shapes for inlay work, etc. If you want these things clicked for you it would be the price of the leather plus my time x 2. That means for a guitar strap, prepunched for you out of Herman Oak leather might end up being 2 sq feet (i haven't measured this) plus 5 minutes to click x 2. Total cost would be $30.00 plus shipping, ready for you to finish. This is probably more than Tandy or other places charge for a guitar strap but Tandy isn't using HO to cut their's or cutting them to length. This is an example of one of the more expensive projects. Key fobs you could probably get at least 10 from a sq. foot, again I haven't measured times 4 minutes x 2. Would make the individual keyfob $1.80. That's if you use my dies. I have to sharpen them, keep them in shape and store them. And I won't use cheap leather. If you want that I'm sure other places, those thousands I keep hearing about LOL will click them for you.

3. Kits I will sell on my website. Maybe I will want 5 wallets to work on and get in my booth. While I'm clicking I might as well click 20. Sort them out, bag them, and I keep 5 and put the other 15 on my site. Since I was already c,licking for myself and didn't have to change hides they might go for 15.00 a wallet with all the parts clicked out, including the one for the top inside that hides the flesh side of the leather. Those would not be made to order so wouldn't cost as much. You could purchase them on my site.

4. ME I'm buying the clicker primarily for me so if no one is interested in 100 key fobs in 5 different shapes, or 5 different kinds of bracelets, then I still have them for me. And maybe there are thousands of people who will do this, I don't know. I just know no one has ever returned a product of mine and hopefully never will do to shoddy craftsmanship. As far as people clicking out their own scraps, I think that's a wise use of them. But I won't be accepting anyone's scraps for this project.

All of the examples here are estimates off the top of my head. I seriously doubt it will cost $1.80 to click a key fob or 30 for a guitar strap but was using them as examples. Chryl

[Northmount]

I'm curious. Which clicker are you getting?

Tom

[DoubleC]

I'm getting the heavy one at texas dies Tom. Was gonna go for the smaller one but for 150.00 seems to make sense to get the bigger one. Cheryl.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

You asked, we're telling you how we see it. My clicker paid for itself in time it saves me, increased production and uniformity of parts. If I had wanted it to pay for itself in custom clicking, I'd still be waiting, and I've owned it about ten years. That's how it is around here. And for a direct answer to your original question, no I would not utilize the service; that's the reason I bought the clicker, so I wouldn't have to.

[25b]

You asked, we're telling you how we see it. My clicker paid for itself in time it saves me, increased production and uniformity of parts. If I had wanted it to pay for itself in custom clicking, I'd still be waiting, and I've owned it about ten years. That's how it is around here. And for a direct answer to your original question, no I would not utilize the service; that's the reason I bought the clicker, so I wouldn't have to.

+1

[Northmount]

I'm getting the heavy one at texas dies Tom. Was gonna go for the smaller one but for 150.00 seems to make sense to get the bigger one. Cheryl.

This clicker (hydraulic shop press), assuming I picked the right one, is not a fast operating clicker. It will take 2 to 5 minutes for repeated cuts using the same die. You have to position the leather and the die, close the bleed valve on the hydraulic jack, pump the handle 20 times or so (depending on how much clearance you left when positioning the die and leather, then release the bleed valve, move/reposition, and repeat.

It is heavy duty, and will make very nice repeatable cuts. Still faster than you or I can cut by hand, just slower than the clickers that run $5k to $10k or more, monster swing arm types like this.

I have a 20 ton shop press that is nearly ready for clicking. Need to get a couple steel plates, then I'm ready to go. I bought a replacement pneumatic bottle jack to replace the typical hydraulic bottle jack. Will help speed things up a little, I just won't have to wear out my arm pumping the jack.

You are on the right track to be able to click out repeatable items saving a lot of time, just not at the speed you have estimated. Neither you or I can afford the big swing arm type, so we use what we can afford and make do.

Tom

[DoubleC]

Big Sioux I wanted to hear about your experiences. I'm not expecting the clicker services to pay for it, that's still too up in the air. I have said repeatedly that I'm getting it for me to save me time. If I get some clicked services out of it that will be gravy, but the meat is saving me time.

[DoubleC]

Hi Tom. I didn't expect it would work that fast or no one would ever buy a tippman or a cobra clicker. BTW they sell the plates on texas custom dies and one of the places someone gave me on this thread has them already bored out. Until I see mine in person I don't expect to understand the differences. Might be exactly the same plates. I didn't know it required that kinda work so if it takes 20 clicks to get on product I would have to adust my my prices. See? This place is full of info. Thanks Tom. I didn't know that although I plan to talk to Texas Dies before I buy anything. Cheryl

[Art]

I have a bottle jack 20 ton press that can be used as a clicker. Instead it is used as a holster press. It also works great for pressing bearings and sleeves in and out. However, I do have a real clicker that holds down the southeast end of the garage. It works for some parts I do a ton of. If you want to come down and use my clicker (the real one) I expect $20 and hour or so, or something in trade. If you bring a case of Heineken, please don't try to drink it all yourself; I don't let drunks use my equipment. Even at these reasonable rates, I don't have a line waiting to use the clicker. I probably do more clicking for the Boy Scouts than I do for others, and I don't charge anything for that, and they usually get the leather for free too. I usually don't let the Scouts click, but the leaders are usually capable (although rather slow). You set-up rules and they comply or leave.

I think even with the air assisted bottle jack press (I put an air drive jack on mine), your throughput isn't going to be very great. Nevertheless, you are not putting much at risk giving it a shot.

Art

[ConradPark]

Double C, I think it's my mistake, I was talking about industrial clicker presses like this one,

You place the hide, place all your dies at once (4-6 dies per wallet and I normally do a couple or more at the time), swing the arm, click, swing off the arm, move the dies (you can normally click a couple, three times before needing to separate the leather - depending on what type of dies), swing back the arm, click, repeat, one hide done. Less than 3-4 min, max. So with this kind of clicker it is very much possible to make it in this time frame. But obviously this is not the kind of clicker you are talking about.

And no, I don't own one of these (cost more than £3500 - I rent them per hour, so it wouldn't make sense to me to be a reseller, besides I am a firm believer that one has to choose what kind of business one wants to do - personally I make and sell leather goods only, if I owned the machinery and only manufactured for others I might have done so, but now that's not the case.)

Anyway, I feel I might have offended you, considering the tone in your answer and that wasn't my intention. Just do what you feel like doing and good luck.

Edited June 12, 2015 by ConradPark

[DoubleC]

No Conrad I wasn't offended and that's the thing about computers, it's hard to understand the emotion behind the typed word. I just couldn't imagine how anyone could click a whole hide at once or do all those things in 15 minutes. Now I'm finding out the commercial, big clickers vs. the one I intend to buy. I make leather goods too but doubt from what I've read here clicking for others would keep me from being able to continue to do that. I work 3 farmer's markets a week, and sell on etsy and FB too and getting ready to build a website so I will be able to keep pretty busy without additional clicking It just seemed like it might be a viable option if I could do someone else's while I was doing mine. Thanks for you comments I really appreciate them. Cheryl