Members grumpyold Posted June 22, 2015 Members Report Posted June 22, 2015 I've searched through all the posts and have not found what I'm looking for.I want to try my hand at a pancake holster, outside waist band for my 1911. I've found lots of info here and else where on the net that shows how to make patterns and illustrates how to make the holster start to finish. These holster are all very nice and the info was informative, just one problem, when wet molded to the pistol shape protrudes out the face and back. I'd like to have the back stay flat and all the shape out the front. I realize I can wet mold the front panel around the pistol before hand, but all these, I saw, are not full double panel., I'm thinking that there has to be some way to figure out how much extra dimension to add to the front panel so once stitch up the front panel will form an open pocket that when I go to mold it the back can be laid flat and the pocket bulging out the front can then be molded. I'm stuck on trying to figure out how much extra to add to the front panel. Hope someone has done this or can share some ideas. Thank you. Quote John Wayne "Life's hard it's even harder when your stupid."
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 22, 2015 Contributing Member Report Posted June 22, 2015 Surely there's one guy "out there" makin em like ya done said. I could git er done, but I got like 5 other designs to do ... Jon from AR gonna start pitchin rocks up this way if I don't finish that Ruger shortly ... Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members Josh Ashman Posted June 22, 2015 Members Report Posted June 22, 2015 Grumpy, Due to leather being a natural material that stretches and depending on how thick it is, what part of the animal it was cut from and where it was tanned the amount of stretch can vary a huge amount. if you want a flat back holster that will fit and work decently you should mold the front piece tot he gun first then figure out your belt slots and the outside shape. Then you can use that to cut out the back piece. Glue it up, sand your edges, stitch it and you're all set. Or, somebody might have a pattern they'll give you. I don't worry about getting flat backed holsters, so I do not have one to share. Good luck! Josh Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 22, 2015 Contributing Member Report Posted June 22, 2015 Plus, whatsa "full double panel"? Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members Jon P Posted June 23, 2015 Members Report Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Now, now... No rocks... I'll just throw this very badly designed holster of mine... lol Edited June 23, 2015 by Jon P Quote
Members chiefjason Posted June 23, 2015 Members Report Posted June 23, 2015 I make mine like Josh is describing, and all I do are flat back holsters. The closest you will come to a pattern is how Dwight does them. He has a pattern where he stitches one side, the slide side IIRC first. Then molds the holster. Maybe he will be along to expound on that one. I have a pattern for the back and a rough pattern thats larger for the front. Wet both. Stamp my mark on the back piece, mold the front, dry both. Then align, adjust, glue, trim, sand, stitch lines, punch holes, dye, stitch, finish. Now, if by "double panel" you mean lined holster there will be a lot more work involved. Mainly figuring out how to stitch the mouth and toe of the holster and integrate those stitch lines into the later stitch lines. Quote
Members grumpyold Posted June 23, 2015 Author Members Report Posted June 23, 2015 I guess my description went off the rails a bit. A better way of saying would be full back panel and full matching front panel. I've seen lots of holsters done with a back panel with belt slots etc., and a molded pocket that's just basically a pocket for the pistol, think Alien type holsters. Quote John Wayne "Life's hard it's even harder when your stupid."
Members grumpyold Posted June 23, 2015 Author Members Report Posted June 23, 2015 Chiefjason, your post is following along what I'm trying to come up with. You state sized back panel and a larger rough front panel. This is where I'm stalled. My thoughts were;-Make a pattern of the pistol, deciding where to stop on the muzzle and trigger guard and mark these,-Use that pattern to design the back panel , cant, belt loop slots, stitch lines etc..This where I'm stalled. If I measure the width of the slide do I double it and add thickness of leather? My thoughts , when doing the front panel,were if I get it to large it will be sloppy, if I get it to small when I go to form it it's go to need space to fit gun in and that's going to push it out the back panel which is what I'm trying to avoid.Once again thanks all for your thoughts and posts.- Quote John Wayne "Life's hard it's even harder when your stupid."
Members chiefjason Posted June 24, 2015 Members Report Posted June 24, 2015 I start by figuring out the shape of the back panel, which is close to what I want the final shape to be. This takes into account cant too. Once that is done I cut it out. I use that to establish the top of the front panel, and add the necessary extra to each side and a little on the bottom. Pro tip, edge color and burnish the top of the front panel before starting. Easier flat than molded. Figure out where you want the gun on the back panel, mark it. Lay top panel on it, flip gun and pane over. Mark it. That gives you a starting point. Wet and case leather. Put makers mark on back piece, I use the sweat shield. Then mold the front. Force dry in dryer on shoe rack. Place gun on marks for back panel. Lay front panel on top. Adjust if needed. Hold them together, flip over and mark outside edge for glue lines. Take out gun. Put back together and mark inside lines for glue lines. Glue. Trim excess. Adjust final form as desired. Sand edges. Mark stitch lines. Set belt loops. Stitch. Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 24, 2015 Contributing Member Report Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) I don't recommend videos usually. First thing out of some folks, "buy a book", "check utube".. blahhlahblah. There are thousands of other [supposedly] holster making videos "out there", but the vast majority of them - free or paid - are a complete waste of time and generally filled with marketing crap. This guy is a bit gabby, my opinion, but he DOES show what you're talking about. Stitched together (including a lining) and THEN formed ... Edited June 24, 2015 by JLSleather Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 24, 2015 Contributing Member Report Posted June 24, 2015 Funny ..I just watched a good bit of that video - though i've watched it before. At half way through, he already has a better looking holster than much of the stuff you see sold. I'd just rough guess it's because he's interested in making a holster, which is not the same as interested in making a video about a holster ... Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members grumpyold Posted June 24, 2015 Author Members Report Posted June 24, 2015 Chiefjason I think we're on the same page. Can you give me some idea of how much extra you add for rough front panel?JLSleather I missed this video when I went searching, lots of good info. To bad the presenter didn't give some idea as to how much extra he adds for the front panel, it appears to be at least a couple inches.I guess some trial and error is going to have to take place, It's not like the mistakes don't add to the learning curve.I did notice that on the video that he still got an impression of the firearm out the back, I spoke to a gentleman in our area that does tack and saddle work. He said getting the right fit will be some trail and error. He told me when I go to mold it if I don't want the outline of the pistol out the back panel to make up a light sheet metal template, slightly undersized, of the pocket. Curve it to body shape, and insert it, wrapped in plastic, along with the pistol. He stated this will force the shape of the pistol in the front panel and the back panel will only show a slight impression of the undersized plate. He did say that I would probably have to add a strap of some sort as normally the fact the molded shape goes into the front and rear panels adds to retention of the gun in the holster.Once more I thank you for your assistance. Quote John Wayne "Life's hard it's even harder when your stupid."
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 24, 2015 Contributing Member Report Posted June 24, 2015 I"m gonna guess that he did enough 'trial and error' (in his words, 'reams of paper') that he didn't want to share his labor with EVERYONE But with that Glock, I'd say that 'extra' that he added to the front panel was in the 2" - 2 1/2" range. No time for the long version this morning. Keep in mind, one of the benefits of a pancake holster that has some of the "shape" in the back.. is less exposure to the outside. It's the same thickness either way, .. .1 piece leather, 1 pistol, then another piece of leather. But all the form out one side tends to leave a more pronounced "lump" on a guy's hip. I get folks who want every detail of the gun showing in the leather. Other guy ask me if I can spell "conceal", since he DOESN'T want it to show ... I don't know nuthin' bout no sheet metal, but if you have someone near you experienced with leather, don't hurt ta pick a fella's brain. But if you like the idea of "flat" (ish) back, you might try multiple layers of leather. Like, say yer gonna use 9 oz leather for your rig. Then you might make that front piece out of 9 oz BUT make the back piece from two pieces of 4.5 oz laminated together. Tends to be more rigid, all else equal. You'd get a bit of 'shape' in the back, but the majority of it will go to the outside (if there's enough leather to allow it). Oh, and yes --- trial and error is a teacher. If we learn from our mistakes, then the guy who knows the most is the guy who made the most mistakes. Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members chiefjason Posted June 25, 2015 Members Report Posted June 25, 2015 Chiefjason I think we're on the same page. Can you give me some idea of how much extra you add for rough front panel? I'll try to get some pics. Thought I had some but could not find them. Might be my pattern, might be a holster. Depends on how soon I need to make one that way. Probably need to pre make a couple more that I recently sold anyway. But normally I run between 1/2" and 1" extra. No need for several inches. Think of it like a regular holster, you need the width of the gun extra in the stitch line, you need the width of the gun extra in the front panel. And FWIW, you can adjust the holster after glueing it. I find myself doing that more now. Putting in some extra curves to make it look nicer. As to needing a strap, maybe his way, not my way. I'll assure you. I can make them tight enough I though I would have to send the blue gun or mag with the holster. lol Flat back or 50-50 mold is preference. But I have had zero complaints about them showing more with the back flat. IMO it carries closer to the body that way since there is no stand off from the back mold. And a lot of compliments on it being the most comfortable holster they have ever worn. And tons of repeat customers. I've got a few guys with close to 10 of my holster. But like I said, personal. A dozen makers here doing it different could tell the same story. Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 26, 2015 Contributing Member Report Posted June 26, 2015 Think of it like a regular holster, you need the width of the gun extra in the stitch line, you need the width of the gun extra in the front panel. Well, I'll wait to see the pics. Sounds like we may be saying the same thing in different words. Think of it like a regular holster, you need the width of the gun extra in the stitch line (that's about 1") you need the width of the gun extra in the front panel (that's about another 1") But, I do NOT have any one person out there with 10 of my holsters, so I'll just wait for the lessons Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members chiefjason Posted June 26, 2015 Members Report Posted June 26, 2015 Well, I'll wait to see the pics. Sounds like we may be saying the same thing in different words. Think of it like a regular holster, you need the width of the gun extra in the stitch line (that's about 1") you need the width of the gun extra in the front panel (that's about another 1") But, I do NOT have any one person out there with 10 of my holsters, so I'll just wait for the lessons Yeah, it's not rocket science once you wrap your head around it. More like a face palm and why didn't I figure that out sooner. lol Looks like I have another order for a Taurus so I'll take some pics in process. Try not to give away all my secrets, there are not that many, I need to keep a few. hehe. Lesson? Find a guy and his wife that both like guns and are just getting into carry. Give them a good holster, and suddenly you get to make a holster for every new gun they get, then their son, then their BIL. With him, if he mentions he's picking up a new gun I start looking for the mold. Gotta love it. Quote
Members grumpyold Posted June 26, 2015 Author Members Report Posted June 26, 2015 I received a PM from another member who kindly supplied me with detailed instructions and several drawings. I have only had a quick look through them but they appear to hit the nail on the head.Chiefjason, my own thoughts from the get go was that I would have to add extra to the front panel but never got to the point where I wanted to start cutting up leather. As a beginner I've all ready got a fine collection of failed experiments I tried using paper templates but, as I'm sure you know, not the most cooperative material to work with when you try to fold it into the shape of a pistol. I started this subject in hopes that someone with way more experience then me could give me direction, and you and others have really come through in spades. Thank you all.. Quote John Wayne "Life's hard it's even harder when your stupid."
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 26, 2015 Contributing Member Report Posted June 26, 2015 So, you're not going to share this wisdom? It was okay to ask, but not okay to tell? No problem, just good information to know. Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members grumpyold Posted June 26, 2015 Author Members Report Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) I'd like to see if it works out for me first. I'd also think that it's not mine to share, it was offered in a PM and e-mails by another member, think it's his to share if he wishes too. Edited June 26, 2015 by grumpyold Quote John Wayne "Life's hard it's even harder when your stupid."
Members chiefjason Posted June 27, 2015 Members Report Posted June 27, 2015 I took a bunch of pics today. Worked up 2 holsters. I want to get them trimmed and ready to stitch before I post anything. Maybe next couple days. OP, one thing that helps me is to use a bone folder and run a line for your stitch line beside the gun while molding. Then you just use a groover on the line when you set your stitch lines. Creasing the leather keeps the mold for the top panel from releasing and raising up. If you force dry the leather, weight the edges or they can raise up too. Quote
Members grumpyold Posted September 7, 2015 Author Members Report Posted September 7, 2015 I finally had a chance to make a holster using the plans generously provided by Dwight. Had a few hiccups , not because of the plans, but due to my inexperience. Only the sixth holster I've made and I'm reasonably pleased with it. I seriously need more tools. Trying to figure out a way to do things without the right tools is get boring. Comment please. Quote John Wayne "Life's hard it's even harder when your stupid."
Members chiefjason Posted September 8, 2015 Members Report Posted September 8, 2015 Yep, it's flat on the back. Good start. One recommendation. Uncover the mag release. If the material releases the mag, that's the makers fault. If you clear that mag release, and something gets to it, it's not your fault. If you get my drift. Pretty much standard with most makers to clear it. Helps allow for a better grip too. Quote
Members grumpyold Posted September 8, 2015 Author Members Report Posted September 8, 2015 Chiefjason Thanks for the comments. I think overall I made the sweat shield larger then needed and understand the point you've made. I thought about trimming it back once I finished the holster but I'll leave it as is and make another as some point. Quote John Wayne "Life's hard it's even harder when your stupid."
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted September 8, 2015 Contributing Member Report Posted September 8, 2015 How well does it clear the front site? Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
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