Vinigeroon Or Black Dye Belts Thoughts And Experiences

[Greystone]

I'm making a batch of black belts and trying to decide if I should Dye w/ feibings oil black or usmc

or use vinigeroon

main concerns are dye transfer to clothes

and a consistent color

and having to wait for the vinigeroon to dry smell is low on the list

thanks David

[camano ridge]

Vinigeroon is not a dye it is a chemical reaction so there will be no rub off or color transfer. My color with vinigeroon is consistent. Some pieces of leather take vinigeroon differently. If you are determined to use dye then I would go with Feibings oil dye. It will need to be rubbed out to remove loose pigment to help limit color transfer. USMC black you will rub forever and may still get some color transfer.

[Greystone]

Thanks I was leaning towards the vinigeroon as I've had a couple issues with belt dye rub off or transfer,

The drying time should offset the rubbing and cleaning time of the dyes on the blanks.

thanks for the input, I've not used vinigeroon enough to determine how and when it should be used best

LAST QUESTION?

when using vinigeroon on holsters or tooled work do you change the process,,ie?

vinigeroon then wet mold or stamp ? or vinigeroon and dry cut out/pattern and build holster normal ?

or build holster then vInigeroon ?

I've noticed a little less mold ability in the vinigeroon treated leather or am I just ????

[mlapaglia]

I apply the 'roon last, after its tooled, stamped, molded. It does make it harder to stamp/tool/mold/ after its applied/ I use a dip method to get good coverage. Make sure to oil it after it dries. Also make sure to neutralize the 'roon with a baking soda wash. I wait about 5 minutes after applying the 'roon then dip in a baking soda/water bath. Then let it dry over night and give it a light coat of neetsfoot oil. The color deepens to a rich black with the oil and it needs it after all the dipping in 'roon and baking soda.

[DoubleC]

there's no contest, vinegaroon for your belts if you're worried about rub off. Black dye is the worst. Cheryl

[chiefjason]

I get no rub off with oil dye. And if you don't get the groon neutralized it will continue to work on the leather and eventually rot it. Over time I have had some grooned leather do some weird things. I've been very happy with oil black.

Edited June 28, 2015 by chiefjason

[OLDNSLOW]

If no one minds another question? I let a batch cook out in the sun for the last 2 weeks, strained it twice to make sure to remove all of the metal, however the roon has a very faint smell of vinegar, but does smell, metallic in nature and this is my first batch of roon and have obviously never used it. I have read I think everything I can find on it but might have missed something, the roon itself right now is like a very dark tea, and I mean very dark. I am currently letting it off gas the last little bit of vinegar odor, but is this what is to be expected? Will the baking soda also kill the odor, thanks for letting me but in and ask a question.

O n S

[camano ridge]

It usually takes a minimum of two weeks to mature, I usually like to wait 4 weeks before I disturb it. Most all of the metal should be dissolved. You may have a bit of sludge to be filtered off. The color can range from putrid gray/brown to brown to blackish. The true test is to dip a piece of scrap in the roon (you should see a color change, anywhere from gray/gray blue, to black),pull it out, wait about 5 minutes then do a quick dip in soda bath rinse and let sit. After it has started to dry a bit oil it good. If it has not already turned black the oil should bring up a nice black. Check and see how the odor level is.

Edited June 29, 2015 by camano ridge

[OLDNSLOW]

I have done most of that, I have dipped then rinsed real quick in water, but not with baking soda, and others are telling me they can still smell the vinegar but it has a metalic odor to it. Will adding the baking soda remove the odor

[DoubleC]

You should have done the baking sod bath right after you dipped it while it was still wet. It is still reacting with the leather as we speak. I would let it soak in the bath for a couple of minutes. The metallic odor is common and will fade with time, same as the vinegar odor. The soda will help but just airing it helps the most. Doesn't take long for the odor to leave, maybe a week. Adding neatsfoot and buffing it up will help too. Cheryl

[OLDNSLOW]

thanks Cheryl for the info that helps

[camano ridge]

Don't add the baking soda to the roon. It should be a mix of baking soda and water I use about a tablespoon of baking soda to 1 quart of water, dip in roon let sit about 5 minutes then dip in baking soda mix no more then 30 seconds( 30 seconds is what I use, other people have their own time frame) rinse.

[OLDNSLOW]

I knew that it has to be different batches in order for it to work just not sure if it would kill the roon and metal odor.

Thanks for all the info.

[camano ridge]

The baking soda bath is a neutralizing agent. The roon is acidic adding the baking soda bath (baking soda is a base or alkaline) adding the soda will bring the Ph closer to neutral. It will assist in reducing the odor. The important thing is that you not overdue the soda as you will move to far up the Ph scale and have the possibility of damaging the leather.

[malabar]

When I started out, I used vinegaroon to blacken leather any time I needed leather that was black. Today I'm very selective about it, only using it for the top layer of my three-layer belts (I used drum-dyed leather for my holsters). And for those, I still top coat with a Angelus acrylic-based finish, not dye. The acrylic finish is not a dye, it NEVER rubs off, and makes a beautiful top coat.

So if I'm putting a black coat on my belts, why bother to vinegaroon?

Because it makes the leather a lot tougher, more water-resistant, and more scratch resistant.

tk

[OLDNSLOW]

and aren't those a plus?

[24VOLTS]

after reading post on vinegaroon (how ever it is spelled). Any one have a step by step setup process and recipe?

Thanks,

Phill

[OLDNSLOW]

I am in the process of making my second batch before it gets to cold out to let the sun warm it, Adams leather works I think it is called has a good explanation on his website, but, I bought a gallon of regular vinegar at the store along with a box of brillow pads, washed all the soap out of the pads then shredded it all up and dropped in to the gallon jug. the 1st batch set out side for 2 weeks, I would go out everyday and shake it up and stir it with a metal rod I have. I also dropped in a few rusty bolts that were laying around, once all of the steel wool has been desolved and the vinegar takes on a dark color ad the odor has diminished it is close o being done. If after a few weeks the steel wool is gone and the vinegar has not changed color much and there is going to be a need to add more metal, it can be rusty nuts, bolts, nails, or you can go buy brillow pads.

Once it takes on a dark color almost tea like and even darker your close to being done, you will need to filter out all the metal residue to remove any left over particles, I filtered mine 3 times. If the odor is still faint let it air out for a week or so, you can do that by leaving it in the jug with the cap off, it still might have a faint odor to it, but from what I and you have read here neutralizing it will help with the odor, and like one other person commented I put a little scented oil on it and it covered up the odor. One other thin I left out but did not do myself that was mentioned on Adams leather website was to warm the vinegar on the stove 1st, not sure if it makes a difference as I did not do it on the 1st or second batch. Now for the second batch it is taking longer than the 1st and not sure why other than it has not been as hot out as it was during the 1st batch. Hope this helps and good luck in your efforts, and as note I have died one item and it came out great, I am still learning and have a long way to go, if I left anything out I am sure others will add more.

[malabar]

and aren't those a plus?

you betcha.

tk

[24VOLTS]

Thank you OLDNSLOW!

I appreciate the info. I will get started on mine since it takes some time for the process.

I have all kinds of rusty iron laying around.

I have used vinegar for removing rust. Never thought of using it for a dye!!

I was also thinking of making a barrel like Will Ghormley does on his holsters to get that authentic old look.

[robs456]

Personally I stopped using 'roon because of inconsistent results between batches and the fact that it is tough to get the dips timed just right without burning the leather.

My first belt that I fortunately made for myself was obviously not done right as recently the keeper split in two (after wearing for about 3 years) and upon inspection I could see that it was hard and very brittle throughout -soda burn.

After getting some belts with totally differing shades of black/charcoal/gray while using the same batch of 'roon I gave up on it, might have been the tannin content of the different leathers but the way I think is that with dye I get the same result every time.

[Oldtoolsniper]

Each piece of leather is different and will take each type of finish differently. The finish type does not matter, each piece of leather will take whatever you are trying to do to it differently. Wood is the same way.

A piece of leather from Mexico will be different from your good ole USA Herman Oak. Test on scraps of that leather.

Super fine steel wool will dissolve the fastest when making your vig juice. Beware some steel wool is oil coated and takes forever to dissolve so I rinse mine in an oil removing solvent. Gasoline works but it's probably illegal to use in that fashion.

I strain mine after brewing thru a paint straining cone from the paint section of your hardware store and store it in the vinegar jug it came from originally. Choose your vinegar wisely and you will have a nice jug to store your vig juice in. The lid is important.

Leather is a protein or something like that. It rots, mildews, falls apart, gets hard, gets gooey and does whatever it's going to do. It was once a cow walking around somewhere. Plastic will last longer but I find the plastic shoes, belts, holsters and wallets to be less appealing than what was once a grass eating, turd spewing hamburger.

Whatever you use on the leather will effect the leather. PH strips are dirt cheap, buy some and test the wet leather on the non showing side to see what the PH level is. The PH strip will tell you if the PH level is neutral in your leather. Your eyeball can't tell you that. I tan furs and that ends up being a type of leather. It must be neutral when I'm done and those PH strips tell me the PH level in a split second.

They leave color on what they touch so test on a non showing side.

They are available at most places that sell swimming pool chemicals and gardening supplies. Store the PH strips out of the light or they turn odd colors.

You can test your water with them too, that's why they are in the swimming pool section.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Oldtoolsniper