My First Saddle... The Hard Way

[drugfree906]

Hello there Leatherworker folks,

My name is Nate. I've been lurking around these forums for some time now trying to glean as much advice as I can from your collective experience. Over the past year I've been working on small projects (headstalls, breast collars, etc) in preparation for building my own saddle. Things I've learned so far:

The Bruce Cheaney YouTube channel is incredibly valuable

Tools need to be sharp

It all starts with cutting a nice, clean, straight line (without a straight edge)

Use the right tools, and materials, for the job

Think ahead, but don't give up if you make a 'mistake'... some things 'buff out' down the road

Use templates, so you can make effective changes on the second... third... or 17th attempt

Saddle stitching takes a lot of time

Saddle stitching is incredibly rewarding

Saddle stitches are hard to terminate cleanly AND securely

Working with tools designed to cut and shape flesh... will in fact do that... even if it's your own

And of course, the leatherworker.net forum is an incredibly helpful resource; Hence why I'm posting here.

I love the Wade style saddle, so that's where I've decided to head. I've already received my tree from Timberline. We went through a 'back and forth' to get the fit right for my horse. I've already ordered all my hardware for flat plate rigging from Jeremiah Watt and my two sides of first class Hermann Oak saddle skirting (12/14 oz) from Springfield. I have most of what I need to get started. What I don't have are a set of templates... I'll be painstakingly generating those over the next few months. Probably lots of expensive 'guess and check' work.

I've consciously chosen to forego purchasing a video or book series at this point. I know some might see this as foolish. Please allow me to attempt to defend my ignorance. I've come to find that I very much enjoy working with leather. I figure I'm going to be at this the rest of my life. As such, I'd rather jump right in with what little I know... so I form a base of experiences (good and bad) in saddle making. This way, when I do watch these videos (plan being after my first attempt), I'll have already 'felt the pain' so to speak. Every little kid is told that the stove is hot... but how many adults don't know what a hot stove feels like? None... because we all have to make the mistake before the words our parents told us hold any value. Just tryin' to burn my hand here real quick before I watch the videos...

That being said, I'm not looking to re-invent the wheel. If anyone else has gone through a similar process and would like to pass along their own list of little gems of experience, I'm all ears!

Right now, my thinking looks something like this:

Use card stock to figure out a rough shape for gullet lining as well as the back of the cantle

Make templates for these pieces

Cut from the hide, preferably from a 'thinner' portion of material (away from the spine)

Skive, case, and form to shape

Double check fit after they are dry

Glue on (or maybe nail? does anyone know the type of tacks I should be using? I hear people slamming "smooth shanks"...)

Generally repeat process for flat plate rigging... checking my template against my current saddle prior to cutting material out

Tack, but don't screw yet, so I don't hose myself by putting a screw right where I need to screw or drill a hole later

We'll cross the rest of the bridge when we come to it...

Again, I know I'm being ignorant here... but I know I'm going to learn a lot in the process. Thank you all for any help you can offer!!

Respectfully,

Nate

[Josh Ashman]

I recommend getting and reading the Al Stohlman saddle making books. He wrote 3 full books of basically what you are asking for here and he did a fine job of it. Building a saddle is a awfully big job to "wing it" on.

Good luck, Josh

[drugfree906]

Thanks for the suggestion, Josh. Any idea where I might find said material?

Talk soon.

[Josh Ashman]

Amazon or Tandy Leather would probably be the easiest place to find them.

[Goldshot Ron]

Nate,

As Josh mentioned, the Al Stohlman book is very helpful and irreplaceable, it is available from Tandy Leather, ebay, or any good leather supply store. You mentioned using your existing saddle as a model or example to follow. This is helpful, but unless you are deconstructing your present saddle, there are a lot of steps that you may miss in constructing your new saddle just by studying your present saddle. The Stohlman books only cover all leather ground seats, and many makers prefer using a metal strainer for their ground seat. You'll need some source of knowledge on how to install a metal strainer. A good video that isn't mentioned very often is Bill Gomer's saddle making video. It is fairly inexpensive, yet he does a good job at directing the first timer at making a wade style saddle. He covers template making, and the basics for designing a well made saddle.

You mentioned about wading your way through the process on your own. And, people may comment about this; however, I will give you my opinions on sources of information to avoid for now (because of cost and the format of the material): J.Watt's video, Dale Harwood's video, and most of the books written prior to the 1990s. Watt's and Harwood's videos are good for people who have built a few saddles to hone their skills, but they leave out some information that first timers will need. Techniques and styles have changed since the 50's and 60's, so older books are only good for picking up information for repairs and general interests.

Finally the subject of nails/tacks: blue cut tacks are good and cheap for temporary purposes, but I suggest ringshank stainless steel 1 inch nails for final nailing of ground seats and nails that will never need to be removed for repairs. Other nails to buy are smooth/box stainless steel nails ( 1" and 1 1/4"). One Note: Stohlman over used tacks, a good glue is very important and will hold without using a lot of nails and tacks.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

Good luck, Ron

[kseidel]

A saddle is not something to experiment with. It is not a belt or spur straps, or even saddlebags. It involves molding and shaping leather around curves. There is very little flat work. It also requires an understanding of balance and fitting to provide proper function, both for the rider and the horse. Get a book or video and study it prior to building. There are plenty of areas to "burn yourself" on even after studying all the available information! Leatherwork is a great hobby... SADDLEMAKING is not! You could build an airplane in your garage without instruction, but would you really expect it to fly? The Al Stohlman book, as Josh mentioned is a great resource. Also Harry Adams saddle shop manual, Jeremiah Watt or Dale Harwood videos, ANY published information is better than none! No reason to start out with a handicap.

Keith

[drugfree906]

Can't thank you all enough for your realistic advice. I just ordered the Stohlman eBook (2 and 3) from Tandy. I'm already glad I did. Tons of information, and like you said Keith, I still see plenty of places for me to burn myself even with these books on my bench. It is remarkable how much saddles have changed since then. I'm seeing that there will be plenty of 'blanks' for me to fill in, anyways. For instance, none of the stirrup leathers he covers are twisted. I guess I might be feeling a little foolish for 'trying to build an airplane in my garage'... but better to be checked on my thinking now rather than a few dozen cuts down the road.

I'm going to post pictures as I go. Please feel free to review/chime in/check my work as I go. This is gonna be a trip! Again, thank you all. Spending the rest of the work day reviewing these books, then I might try to make a gullet/cantle template tonight. Who knows, now that I have an idea of the right part of the hide to cut these pieces from, I might even get started!

Also, thanks for the nail info Ron!! Very helpful.

I appreciate you guys not shutting me down and calling me a complete idiot... at least to my face...
Also, appreciate you guys telling me to go read a book.

More soon!

[rdl123]

I agree with Keith,

Here is my experience: The more educational material you have on hand the better. Each piece will give you perspective that the other does not. DVD's are incredibly valuable - They will help you fill in the blanks. I started with Al Stohlman Books and the Harry Adams book and then part way through my first saddle I purchase both Jeremiah Watts and Dale Harwoods DVD's - I wish I would have bought them both right from day one. The advice they contain will prevent you from making mistakes and wasting expensive Hermann Oak. They will almost pay for themselves in saving you from expensive screw-ups.

As Keith says - Saddle making is a dubious hobby - It's expensive, time consuming and at times frustrating. That said if your personality is like mine you will still enjoy it. However be prepared to have some bad days while you wrestle a hunk of Hermann Oak that doesn't want to conform to what you have in mind. That said - Riding and roping out of your own hand made saddle that fits you and the horses you ride is hard to beat!

Also - Buy only the best tools - I started with junk, ended up buying good stuff. Bruce Johnson on this site is great to buy from - I've got splitters a round knife and general hand tools from him - All quality, old school tools.

Good Luck and looking forward to seeing your progress.

R

[drugfree906]

Thank you very much R. Sounds like we're coming from a similar place. Very excited to get started.

Just started posting on another form looking for a few old school CS Osborne tools. Also going to take a look at JW. From here out, I'm only going to buy the higher quality tools available. I also feel like I'll end up with the videos you mentioned... probably at the end of my first night of wresting a stubborn piece of HO...

Again, thanks much. Pictures soon.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Just to reiterate, what the others here have said, there is a lot of ways to get burned without starting out to do it on purpose! Keith is easily recognized as one of the "good ones". It will pay you dividends to follow his advice. I have been making saddles for 20 years or so, and I still welcome his comments. Just sayin".

Bob

[drugfree906]

Thanks much, Bob. Happy to have great craftsmen nudging me in the right direction. I see you're from Manchester, Mi. My folks live in Brighton. Interesting

Edited July 16, 2015 by drugfree906

[Billy H]

Hi Nate,

Wishing you good luck in your adventure to building your own saddle!

Some great advice on where to start from. You will be surprised at the cost of starting your first saddle.

Good tools are not cheap but really make a difference in the final project plus they just work better.

I had to laugh when Keith mentioned building a airplane in ones garage, being a retired airline pilot I can assure you that it is not a good idea. The saddle tree is so important to a good saddle. Custom saddle trees are expensive but worth the extra money in my opinion.

Rod and Denise Nikkel make really nice trees and they contribute to this forum a lot with great advice. I had a chance to see a few of their trees at Keith Seidels Work shop in Sheridan this spring. This forum has so much information about the ART of building a good saddle. If you have the opportunity try and talk to a saddle maker in your area---- sometimes they are willing to give you a little of their time in getting started. I would try and offer to pay for their time it shows respect for the time they have spent in learning their trade.

I am working on saddle number 8 and I can tell you that you will find yourself getting very frustrated at all the mistakes and material discard factor that comes into play.

J Watts DVD series on building a saddle is really good to watch, you will find that it will fill in a lot of the blanks in starting a saddle.

Hardwoods saddle making series is better suited for someone who has a few saddles under their belt, but a real treat to watch him work.

I think that anything is possible if one is willing to put the time and effort and of course $ . Regards Billy

Edited July 19, 2015 by Billy H

[rktaylor]

Nate,

I built my first saddle with little to no instructional material. My thought process was similar to yours. I learn by doing. That said, I would not wish that experience on anyone. Now I have JW's video, Volume 1 and 2 of Stohlman's, Dusty Johnson's package, Harry Adams' book and John Hooper's book. Harry Adam's book is the first place I look when I have a question. Stohlman's books are second. I need to pick up volume 3.

With three saddles completed, I am far from an expert (but that hasn't stopped me from chiming in). My advice is to really think about your ground seat. You can hide a lot of mistakes, but this isn't one of them. It doesn't matter whether it's all leather or a tin strainer.

Your going to do a lot of head scratching and staring into space, but you will be pleased in the end. And you'll probably be thinking about your second saddle and half way through this one.

Good luck. I am looking forward to following your journey.

Randy

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Well said Randy. As for the ground seat, I have done both and regardless of what type it is, it needs to be right.

Drug free, small world! Where are you at now?

Bob

[drugfree906]

Again, thanks all for the continued support. I'm just waiting for my stainless ring shank nails to come in, at this point. First free night I get I'm going to start making some cuts from the hides I've got for this project. Finishing up some knife sheaths in the meantime!

Bob - I've planted myself in Vermont for the last few years working for a coffee company during the day, and riding as much as I can at night/on the weekends. Looking to move again (west) in the next couple years once the misses finishes her Masters degree up.

Thanks again everyone. Talk soon!

Nate

[drugfree906]

Hello Everyone,

What a crazy few months. Among other life events, work decided to put over 300 of us on permanent vacation following a recent acquisition. Actually pretty nice, though, as we're covered with severance through the first of the year!

So. I find myself with quite a bit more time to ride my horse and work on this project!

After much deliberation, reading, and a little bit of cutting, I decided to follow the sage advice of everyone on here/I've ever talked to in person... and make patterns/lay out all my pieces. I've managed to get everything on two hides at this point, except for my rear jockeys. Looks like I'll be needing to pick up a third hide before it's all said and done. From what I've read, it seems like lots of guys find themselves cutting in to their third hide before the end of their project. And I'm sure I'll be making some mistakes along the way, so I expect the body count to climb before I'm riding this thing.

Hoping my thread here will be a little more active in the coming weeks/months as I really get to working on this job. So excited!

Nate

[hannahrain]

Did you ever make any progress on the saddle? Debating on beginning my first one. 

 

Hannah

[oltoot]

2 cents worth: I want to register a vote against any kind of ring shanked nails. Reason being, they wreak havoc on the wood when they are removed. My mentor taught me to think about that in the basic design of things, He said that when I got it right, a basic saddle should outlive me and to always think about the guy who would be repairing the thing cause it might even be me.
Along that line I have, in the last several years, begun to employ drywall screws (#6) in a lieu of tacks in many places. They are tenacious and non-destructive when removed, plus they are easy to employ with a battery powered drill/driver. I haven't stopped using tacks and various sizes of cement coated nails where appropriate but the drywall screws have replaced a lot of them. Oh yeah, #12 wood screws are still the right stuff for some final assembly steps.

[Ken Nelson]

I second the vote against ring shanks anywhere on a saddle..  NOT a good idea any time.

[drugfree906]

Good Morning Folks,

Just wanted to check in on this thread.  For all of you who chimed in on my first go around, I can't thank you enough.  I got all the way (more or less) through my first build.  All hand stitched.  It was a complete mess once completed.  Big surprise, eh?

That saddle sat around my shop for the entire spring, summer and fall.  Never moved.  Couldn't bear to show the world my first attempt at building a saddle, and certainly couldn't bear to have my horse pack such an awful joke of a saddle around!  So, there it sat.  As soon as I finished throwing my last hand stitch, I immediately purchased a Cobra Class 4.  Since then, I was asked to build all kinds of things that I would never have been able to (without loosing my shirt) before.  Stitched belts, holsters, headstalls, etc all started coming together.  I never really made any money, in fact I've been putting more in to my business, but that's because pretty much every dollar that comes in is turning around to buy quality tools or to replace materials that I learned valuable lessons on.  All the while, that 'saddle shaped thing' sat there and collected dust.  I'd rotate it once in a while so it would get suntanned evenly, you know, to be reasonable and all.  I built chinks, spur straps, sheaths, holsters, belts, gun belts, and a slew of custom orders.  All the while, my hand was improving.  I got the change to visit with a maker over in NY who showed me a few things about finishing edges.  I continued to learn and remained excited, despite my awful failure at saddle #1.

This fall, when my horse's winter coat started to come in, she had a couple white spots on her shoulders.  I felt absolutely horrible.  Upon checking the fit of my only functional saddle, I found that she had filled out quite a bit towards the end of the summer and it no longer fit her well.  I had accidentally made her sore and felt very badly about it.  Not sure what to do, I vowed to ride her bareback until I found something that fit her better.  Then, I remembered that junker in my shop.  I tore it completely down to the tree, which I brought out to my mare and sure enough it fits her quite well.  So, I started on attempt number 2.  You can see pictures of basically the entire build here (if you're interested): https://www.facebook.com/MakerNT/

Now, I've hit a hard spot, and I am hoping to find a little guidance here again.  I'll be purchasing the JW DVDs on Monday, as I'm sure this will help me quite a bit, but in the meantime does anyone have any tips for getting this cantle binding on?  I've cut it out of a straight piece of 6/7oz HO.  I get it to stretch in just fine across the 'face' of the seat.  Backside looks good too, right until I get to the last 3 or 4 inches down where the cantle meets the bars.  Gets all bunched up back there and do matter how much skiving, casing, smashing, stretching, cursing, etc I do, I just simply can't get the binding to lay in there well enough to stitch.  I'm not looking to build a museum piece here, folks.  Just want to get back on my pony.  I expect my third attempt will be far better once I've viewed the Watt DVDs, and I expect I'll be doing most everything different from the start.  For now, though, I'd just like to get through this bad boy, get back on my horse, and start the next one fresh.  Any advice you could offer would be much appreciated.  Thank you all, very much!! 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

My first thought was "what part of the hide did you cut the binding from?"  I always cut from the center of the belly, about as low as I can go and still have relatively solid hide on the front of the binding. If you cut from too solid of a part of the hide, you may have to cut another binding. Also, 6-7 oz has been split down from heavier leather and may have had much of the stretch already removed from it, which will make it much more difficult to mold to the shape of the roll.  The lightest weight skirting you can get that has not been split down will probably work better.  Then you skive down where you need to. I think many people starting out underestimate the amount of skiving needed.  The shape of the roll at the spots you're having trouble with will also determine somewhat the difficulty of getting the binding shaped. The wider the roll at that spot, the harder it will be to form.  You also might be leaving all the slack to get rid of to that spot.  When putting on a binding, I work on the corners before I do very much with the rest. It's a lot easier to get rid of that slack if you work some of it further up the cantle. If you form the easy part first, you have too much slack left at the trouble spot. I built my first saddle in '99, and never had the advantage of having anyone close who could help me and show me in person how to do things.  It's only the last couple years that I feel I've really been able to get my bindings on nicely and been happy with the way they look when finished. Hopefully, someone that has a better knack for explaining things than I do will chime in with additional advice. Best of luck to you.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Big Sioux Saddlery