Leather Bending Down When I Sew Close To An Edge. Cowboy 3500.

[Tallbald]

I've become nicely comfortable in many areas with my wonderful Cowboy 3500. One trouble I continue to have though is that when I need to sew close to an edge (say, within 3/16 of an inch) on two layers of 5-6 ounce leather, the needle bends the edge of the project leather down into the open area below the foot. This causes the stitch line to wander and mess up. Small items such as key rings, billfolds and such get ruined often.

How should I correct my technique? I've considered cutting a project 3/8 inch oversize and trimming away the excess but that is costly in time and materials. But if I have to I can do that.

Smaller needles maybe? Changing presser foot pressure doesn't seem to help.

I've watched online videos often that show operators sewing close to an edge with similar machines that do not appear to have my trouble.

Remedies and suggestions sure appreciated. Thanks.

Don.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Tallbald

[dirtclod]

Have you got a picture of the plate?

[Tallbald]

My wife is out of town until mid week and has our digital camera. I could post a photo when she returns. In the meantime, all I can share is that the plate is the factory installed one. I wish there was a way to support the leather from underneath as it's being sewn. Don.

[Wizcrafts]

Here is how I would sew two layers of 5-6 oz leather that tends to bend down on the edges.

1. Swap the double toe foot for the single left toe foot.
2. Install a #23 (160) leather point needle.
3. Back off the presser foot pressure spring.
4. Rethread with #138 bonded nylon thread, top and bottom.
5. Reduce the tensions in the bobbin and on top, to balance the knots under less overall tension.
6. Set my edge guide to the exact distance that places the needle where it needs to be, keeping in mind that with reduced upper tension, there is less left deflection.
7. Push the leather against the edge guide wheel as I sew.
8. Set the stitch length to no longer than 6 to the inch.
9. If this didn't solve the problem, I would then remove the standard throat plate and the feed dog and install the flat slotted plate instead. This usually does it for me on soft leather or textiles.

[JLSleather]

Why is there an "open area below the foot"? Is the feed dog too low?

[CowboyBob]

The leather must be soft enough that the tension of the bobbin thread is pulling it down when the feed dog is lowered & going forward.This is what the slotted plate is for thin & soft leather.You will

need to take the feed dog of when you want to use it.

[Gump]

I had the same problem with my Toro 3200 (441 clone). On mine the problem was the hole in the feed dog was way to big, and the center walking foot was pushing the leather into the hole and the needle would come out the side of a sheath that had a welt; total of 3/8 inch thick. I filled the hole with metal epoxy and drilled a proper sized hole in the epoxy. Problem solved. Artisan sewing said they could sell me another feed dog, with a proper size hole for $90. The garbage feed dog that came with the machine has a hole large enough for the walking foot to fit down in it.

[Tallbald]

Bob this is Don in Bowling Green, KY. I bought my wonderful Cowboy 3500 from you last spring, but no other plate came with it except the one installed when you shipped it to me. I did remove the roller guide with its flat plate to give me better access when sewing. Is part of that roller a part I need to utilize? Or Are you talking about an accessory slotted plate I need to purchase? I left a message for you at your business but I believe you are closed for the day. I'm on Central time while you are on Eastern I believe.

Side note here folks from a satisfied purchaser:

For those of you looking for a Cowboy product, Bob Kovar has given me great service and has a wealth of knowledge. I would buy from Bob and his son again without hesitation.Pretty neat that a seller is also actively a contributor to the forum here. Don.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Tallbald

[25b]

See, I was having a similar problem to this (leather edge being pushed down into the gaping hole) and was basically told that's just how it is, deal with it. Now I see there is another feed plate that I would have to purchase to correct a problem due to the POS feed plate that was supplied with my own 3200??? That makes me a little bit angry.

[Tallbald]

25B I've been thinking it was a technique problem on my part. I'll be interested to see how I can make it better. I've ruined several handgun holsters, dip can belt holsters and many small craft sale items (like keychain fobs, snap keychain straps and such) that require me to sew close to an edge. Chalked it up to my inexperience, not my machine.

****Does anybody have a nice but used left or right toe presser foot for sale that will fit my Cowboy 3500 please? If so, I'd appreciate a snapshot and price. I'm on a very fixed income and new, they are a bit out of my range. Don.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Tallbald

[dbusarow]

The slotted plate is not intended for normal use. When you need it it is great. But you CANNOT use a feed dog with the slotted plate. That is why it is an accessory.

Dan

[Tallbald]

Are they expensive Dan?

And would that let me sew heavy canvas, thin leather and such?

Thanks. Don

Edited August 4, 2015 by Tallbald

[dbusarow]

Are they expensive Dan?

And would that let me sew heavy canvas, thin leather and such?

Thanks. Don

I decided to go with a Cobra 4 instead of a Cobra 3 and that got me the accessory pack along with the longer cylinder arm. So it cost about $400

Well worth it though. When I was first shopping I didn't think I'd ever need the extra throat depth. But instead of going to waste I now find myself wishing for more.

I just checked Cobra Steve's website and the slotted plate is listed there for $85.00

For heavy canvas you will want the Blanket Set which includes a toothed feed dog and presser feet.

You can do thin leather with the standard plate, you just can't get real close to the edge. Run the seam about 1/4 inch in and you are good. Going back and forth between heavier leather, a couple layers of 8/9 and something like 2 layers of 3/4 does take a lot of adjustment though. At least that's been my experience. I only setup for the thin stuff if I really need to.

Dan

Edited August 5, 2015 by dbusarow

[JLSleather]

I have a slotted plate for the cobra machine, never installed - $50. Maybe somebody can pipe in and tell you if this would fit the 3200.

Blanket set (3-piece) already went cheap!

Edited August 5, 2015 by JLSleather

[CowboyBob]

Guys,you have to remember what your dealing with here.The 3200 & 3500,4500 are all made for thicker leather using thicker thread,there is no one machine that does it all & does a good job w/o some effort on your part.The easiest way is make a wider seam(It would be a lot cheaper than throwing away a project)it's just a 1/4"or so material that you cut off when your done & burnish the edge after.Also if your doing alot of this lighter weight sewing a smaller machine might give more consistent results.

I see some tempers flairing & I don't want to argue with anyone so please cooloff,we try to ask people before they buy one what all they plan on sewing & I always like to say these are bigger machines & they will sew lighter material but it's like driving a dumptruck to the grocery store you can do it but it won't work the best.

Don't forget either that a smaller machine won't use the heavier thread & sew as thick as these either

.It's the nature of the beast!!

[CowboyBob]

The needle plate from the larger machines can be made to fit on the 3200 by elongating the back screw hole(it's off about 1/2 of the hole)

Edited August 5, 2015 by CowboyBob

[Tallbald]

Bob I'm not upset at all. I thought it was my technique causing me trouble. I'm glad to know there's an accessory plate I can buy. As a retired toolmaker, I may try to make myself one if I find a photograph of the real deal. Keep me in mind too please if you ever happen upon a used stainless single toe presser foot (left OR right--I will make do) I have found that I could benefit from one when sewing up against a boned shoulder on some of the holsters I make. I even thought of cutting and modifying a two toe presser foot if I found one inexpensively. I simply can't currently afford the price of a new one. Penny's and my medical things and other necessities of course have to take priority.

I do so appreciate the time you have given me in the last year on the telephone helping me learn my machine. And your videos are a good source for me too. I've never had as good a customer service over long term as I have from you.

Don

Post Script: Anyone have a picture or drawing of the accessory plate for the Cowboy 3500 maybe they could share?

Don.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Tallbald

[JLSleather]

So, the one on Bob's site is for the larger machines?

http://www.tolindsewmach.com/images/accs/slotted-plate.jpg

[CowboyBob]

So, the one on Bob's site is for the larger machines?

http://www.tolindsewmach.com/images/accs/slotted-plate.jpg

Yes,but we can modify it for the 3200.

Also when you use the slotted plate the stitch length will be shorter in reverse do to the missing feed dog.

[Tallbald]

Hi again folks. I just wanted to say again how tickled and impressed I am with Bob Kovar's excellent post-sale customer support there at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines . Bob called me this morning and followed up his posted answers to me in greater detail regarding my questions about my Cowboy 3500. Understand that this is over a full year after the sale was made. What he discussed with me opened up several avenues I can take that will let me get even more versatile use from "Bertha Jo", as my wife and I have named my 3500. That's great service.

I'm going to see if I am able to fabricate a throat plate for my 3500 myself. If not, I'll bite the bullet and buy one. I'd prefer the stainless steel factory made accessory plate option anyway.

Kudos to Bob, and all the members of this forum who take time to help those at every level of experience when they can.

Don.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Tallbald

[25b]

What he discussed with me opened up several avenues I can take that will let me get even more versatile use from "Bertha Jo", as my wife and I have named my 3500.

That's great. Anything you'd care to share to help the rest of us? I have seen videos showing people sewing only about 3/16" from the edge when making belts, for instance...I cannot do that without having the same problem you posted this thread about.

I'm not sewing 1-2oz belts either...I bought the 3200 to sew belts for CHL, so I don't think the (lack of) thickness is the issue.

[Tallbald]

Bob talked with me about how the accessory plate is made, talked about some options in needle and thread sizes I can use (thinner thread with needle size reduction as shown in the chart on the company website), and discussed removal of the lower feed dog for use of the different plate. I agree that Bertha Jo (my 3500) is a large, very heavy duty machine designed specifically for certain styles of sewing and applications. It's a clone I think of a venerable machine that's served industry well for years so there's nothing really new about it's capabilities and limits ----it's just a more affordable version for folks like me. I appreciate his dump-truck-for grocery-shopping analogy which made me grin. and as a retired tool and die maker I understand well. Each time I use Bertha Jo I learn more about her strengths. I do know that sewing stiffer, pre-dyed leather gives me less problem than plain veg tanned because of resistance to flexing. The optional plate ( or my version) will, I believe, solve my problem. Again, it comes back to me knowing my machine. I categorize that as (this) operators learning curve.

Pretty excited here myself. Hopes this thread helps some others too. Don.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Tallbald

[Wizcrafts]

I have a flat slotted plate that came with the full accessory package for the CB4500. Whenever I have to sew something that is difficult with the feed dog and large cutout plate, I change to the flat plate setup. I know in advance that reverse may not line up with forward, so I use extra caution when backing up (or spin the work)

Most folks use this accessory to sew thin leather that would get pushed down into the cutout of feed dog hole. I use it to sew as close to the edge as possible (for a particular needle size). This includes watch straps, thin collars and soft leather goods. Of course, the edge guide helps a lot in these jobs.

[Tallbald]

Wizcrafts that's exactly what I want to be able to do. Thank you ! Don.