Choosing The Right Machine

[Velict]

Hello all!

I'd like to introduce myself. I'm extremely new to leather work and vinyl work. I work with the USAF as an Avionics Technician on the B-1, F-16, B-2 and various other aircraft. I have a healthy background in electrical and computer engineering and maintenance. Currently I live in Japan, and I was lucky enough to come across a very rare care in the United States; an R32 gtr.

So far, the car seems to be in good condition, even the interior is very nice for 25 year old car. It does have some cosmetic problems, and of course I want to do a custom interior retrim.

I'm completely capable of trial and error, and taking my time with especially large projects such as an interior retrim.

So I've been doing as much research as I can, and I decided to make an account here to get a first hand opinion from you guys.

Currently, I've researched about the most prominent walking foot sewing machines, since I'll mostly be sewing vinyl. I've heard of the headaches that are solved by using a walking foot.

I looked for pricing on the singer 111 series, and noticed that most of the pricing with motors and table almost always equal the price of a brand new Sailrite LS-1 basic. I've seen a few singer 95-15 around sewing leather, but how well does it honestly work with folded layers of vinyl and foam? I feel that it's a bit incredible that most of these older sewing machines, or general "used" new sewing machines are over 800 dollars. I feel that 600 USD for a brand new LS-1 is acceptable, but I was wondering what other machines I could use with heavy automotive / marine vinyl. Specifically, some allsport 4 way and some thick carpeting / foam padding.

What other machines can you think of that don't break the bank? I'd say the main reason i'm looking for a ~600 maximum is because I would pay for someone to take the time and ship it to me (ie: paying extra for your efforts, plus the shipping cost). Of course, if push comes to shove, if anyone is in Florida, I can get one of my buddies to pick it up and ship it to me.

What are y'alls opinion on my machine choices?

[25b]

The LS-1 will not do what you want to do unless you also buy the Monster II balance wheel, fyi...

It's another $119...I have had the LS-1 and now have the LSZ-1. If I were to do it again, I'd consider getting a Consew 206-RB. I may still sell the LSZ-1 to get the Consew one day after all, but for now I can do everything I need to do between the LSZ-1 and my CB3200...even though the backside stitches from the 3200 look like garbage.

Edited September 29, 2015 by 25b

[Wizcrafts]

You should be looking at industrial walking foot machines with either a servo or 1/3 HP clutch motor. I am guessing that slow speeds won't be required too often for upholstery work. Mind you, a servo is easier to control at slower speeds than a clutch.

The real issue will be how much body depth do you require to sew these items? Portable walking foot machines (made for use on boats) are usually well under 9 inches deep, from the needle to the inside of the body. Some have a fairly low inside height as well. A standard Consew or Juki walking foot machine will have more width and height. The only way that the LS or LZ will work better for you is if space is limited and your vinyl projects can be either edge stitched only, or folded up inside the smaller harp area.

If all your material is other than leather, a dual feed walking foot machine will do just fine. These machines have a driven outside foot that follows the driven feed dog. They also have aggressive teeth on the bottom of both feet.

If your total thickness exceeds 3/8 inch, a Juki LU-1508NH or equivalent will be a better choice. It has a longer needle and is cut out for higher lift.

[Velict]

Hhmm, I don't think I will go above 3/8 inch in thickness.. I've seen the video on Sailrites youtube page of them doing 8 layers of vinyl, which is wayyy more than i'll be doing. I think my problem will be doing on top stitches, because i want to do a european stitch

[25b]

You really are going to need the large, heavy balance wheel.

I'd seriously consider the Consew over the LS-1 for what you're trying to do.

[Velict]

I'll start looking.

[Velict]

I actually found a 111w155 in florida for 500 bucks, with motor and recently maintained. I've heard this is the holy grail of machines.

[Constabulary]

Well, not really "the" holy grale but when setup well these are rock solid machiens that will last for decades. The 111W155 has no reverse by the way

[Velict]

I've decided to go with a Yamata FS-388z. It's chinese, but after researching here, people say that all you gotta do is upgrade the motor from someone reputable, and a monster II from sailright for it.

[glmr]

Hello.

Does anyone know if Sailrite LS-1 with Monster Wheel sews 6mm (15oz) of total leather thickness?

[JREESER1]

Sorry, it will not. The presser foot will not raise that high and maintain any top tension. I have a LSZ-1, with a monster wheel and anything over 5-6 oz. causes skipped stiches.

jr

[glmr]

strange. I found this video

looks like it is more than 6oz

Edited February 26, 2016 by glmr

[Constabulary]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Do you think this machine did a good job? Most of the time he is hand cranking - Yeah - what a powerful motor.

The motor sounds like it will be dying within the next few minutes. This is the biggest BS of leather working I have seen. He is not even using a left or right toe foot - how stupid is that? A hammer and some nails would have done a better job. Better buy a $5 Nylon pouch - looks better - fits better.

Yes, buy this machine - you will love it!

[machinehead]

It states on the Sailrite website that the Ultrafeed will stitch up to 6MM (1/4") of leather but they are talking about soft leather, not hard temper such as veg tanned and that is the upper limit of the machine's capability, under ideal circumstances. It uses up to and including V92 thread with up to a size 22 needle.

One shouldn't use a tack hammer when the job calls for a sledge.

[glmr]

So, if the space is enough does it mean that I can have problems with motor, but not with mechanical parts? Does hand cranking help me in such situation?

Edited February 26, 2016 by glmr

[Wizcrafts]

That machine is absolutely not a leather sewing machine for the purposes normally discussed in this forum. It is a vinyl and webbing sewing machine that somebody has used to butcher a leather knife sheath.

The motor on these mini-walking foot machines is rated at 150 watts under full load and develops most of its power at higher running speeds. They have a tiny 2 speed reducer pulley between the motor and machine. If the machine has that much trouble starting in a fairly thin leather knife pouch, like in the above video, it won't stand a chance trying to penetrate a quarter inch of veg-tan. It usually takes a 1/2 horse power, 550 watt motor, or stronger, to penetrate 16 ounces of veg-tan leather from a dead stop. You basically need a motor that is 5 times more powerful than the one in that Sailrite machine.

[Constabulary]

I hope you didn´t get me wrong - I absolutely agree with Wiz. I mean when you look at the Video it is pretty much self explaining. I never would buy this machine for leather work. Some may have some positive experience but I´m sure they don´t do serious heavy leather work with it.

[glmr]

Thank you for answers, but what about to use hand cranking for 16oz leather. Will it help?

[machinehead]

In the interest in full disclosure, I have two of the LS-1 machines. I have bought and sold many machines over the last several years and the first LS-1 I acquired has the Monster wheel and the leather foot installed. I have two pieces of veg tan that is 1/4" thick that I used to adjust the tensions on one of my true leather sewing machines. I took that test piece and hand cranked a couple of inches on the Sailrite. Using about size 92 thread, it acomplished that very short run with no skipped stitches in forward or reverse.

Having said that, would I say use this machine for sewing 1/4" veg-tan? No, absolutely not. It was mentioned above by someone else that owns one that even 5-6 ounce can cause skipped stitches and I have no doubt that in a real world project scenario that can be the case. I don't know from personal experience because I never use it for heavy stuff. Let me be clear - in regard to the LS-1, 1/4" is very heavy. It is a fine machine for the purpose it was designed for so why would I abuse it by asking more of it than it is designed to acomplish?

Speaking of thread size, the size the 92 looks and is puny for 1/4" of veg-tanned.

Speaking of available feet... in addition to the regular heavy toothed foot the selection is limited to left and right zipper and the aforementioned leather foot which is a must for not marking the leather as it has less aggressive teeth.

The LS-1 does not have needle feed.

Edited February 27, 2016 by machinehead

[CowboyBob]

I've sold them to inmates in Texas & they have a lot of problems with them.I'm almost certain they try sewing too thick & have broken the feed bar(the part the feed dog fastens to) along with a lot of other parts.Yes,#92 is as big a thread as they will take & sewing 1/4" max.If you are just sewing upholstery or canvas these are great machines or even 1/4" leather.But for knife sheaths & etc it will leave nasty teeth marks in the leather.

[glmr]

Oh, no, I'm not going to sew holsters. But sometimes I need to sew 3-6 layers of 1-1.8mm leather. Now I'm sewing with vintage but angry hand-cranking sewing machine. And with some violence and lubricant it sews about 5mm of leather, so I supposed that Sailrite could do it better. But as I can see it would be better to think aboutan industrial machine. Just not sure if I can attach a crank to industrial machine.

[doosty2]

I am currently making a stitch down shoe with a Juki 1541 and it is struggling a bit. The material is 8oz boot sole and a 5oz shoe upper leather (both chrome and veg tan). Total thickness is about 3/16". 

I have a few questions about what the best solution may be. 

The machine does a good job once I get going. Can I change the pulleys out to get better low end torque? Is there a better or bigger motor I should go for instead of changing the gear ratio? Is there a better all around machine that is standard with the low end power that I need? 

Thanks

[brmax]

Yes i agree a smaller pulley will help the torque available punching through. 

Good day

Floyd

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, doosty2 said:

I am currently making a stitch down shoe with a Juki 1541 and it is struggling a bit. The material is 8oz boot sole and a 5oz shoe upper leather (both chrome and veg tan). Total thickness is about 3/16". 

I have a few questions about what the best solution may be. 

The machine does a good job once I get going. Can I change the pulleys out to get better low end torque? Is there a better or bigger motor I should go for instead of changing the gear ratio? Is there a better all around machine that is standard with the low end power that I need? 

Thanks

What type and wattage motor do you have now? What is the diameter across the motor's pulley? Ditto for the machine pulley?

[doosty2]

current pulley is a 3" and the motor is a small (looks pretty cheap too) dial adjusted servo motor. The 3/4 HP consew brushless servo is only 125ish on amazon. Is that a good step? My friend mentioned an EFKA but they are a bit more.