l2bravo Report post Posted November 22, 2015 Guys, I am looking at a lightly used machine. it is the Cobra 22618-8B, but built with an arm, rather than a table model. It seems it is a pretty nice machine, but I am not sure of what it lacks compared to a Cowboy 3200. It seems to be there is about a $500 difference, in this vs. a new Cowboy. Any wisdom here? Thanks in advance, Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted November 22, 2015 Cobra 22618-8B is a "clone" of the Consew 227 and the like and is pretty much limited to 138 thread. The Cowboy 3200 is a much heavier machine with oscillating barrel hook and it can handle much heavier thread (up to 277 afaik). The equivalent to the Cobra 22618-8B is the Cowboy CB227 or Tecsew 2700. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted November 22, 2015 The conbra is more like an upholstery or purse/garment ma chine while the cowboy 3200 is more like a small saddle/holster machine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 22, 2015 Ok, both these machines are very good, but they are two different animals. The Cobra 22618-8b is a medium to heavy duty machine, more on the medium end. The Cowboy 3200 is a heavy duty to medium duty machine, much more on the heavy end. It comes down to two very different needle and bobbin systems. The 22618-8b uses the 135-16/17 needle system and can run up to a #24 or so needle, it is very much like the Cowboy 227R. The Cowboy 3200 utilizes a 794 needle system that can run a #27 needle, a real nail. The hook/shuttle systems are totally different, the Cowboy made to handle larger thread. You will sacrifice on one end of the sewing range or the other, you have to determine what kind of work you do. If you do a lot of 69 and 94 thread, get the Cobra or Cowboy 227R, if OTOH you sew a lot of 207 and 277, the 3200 would be your ticket. If you do a lot of what one machine or the other won't do as good or better than the other, your choice is simple. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
l2bravo Report post Posted November 22, 2015 Cobra 22618-8B is a "clone" of the Consew 227 and the like and is pretty much limited to 138 thread. The Cowboy 3200 is a much heavier machine with oscillating barrel hook and it can handle much heavier thread (up to 277 afaik). The equivalent to the Cobra 22618-8B is the Cowboy CB227 or Tecsew 2700. I think the Cobra can take 207. This is a special built machine, that has an arm on it, rather than a flatbed. Looking more like a 3200, if that makes any sense. What I want to do: I use mostly oil tanned, and 3-7 oz. in the weight range. I need this to sew 2-3 layers of this material mostly. So call it 20 oz. of oil tanned. 207 should work for me, but would rather the 277 option, though not a deal breaker. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Bite the bullet and buy the 3200? Thank you very much guys, for the help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted November 22, 2015 At 20 oz leather and 207 and 277 thread, get the 3200. Simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
l2bravo Report post Posted November 22, 2015 At 20 oz leather and 207 and 277 thread, get the 3200. Simple. That is what I was thinking. Here is a question though. If I have say 2 pieces of 2-3 oz. Will a 3200 go that light? Using some lighter thread of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 22, 2015 Buy the Cowboy 3200. Shop for and find a Singer 31-20 and use that for the light stuff. The dealer may be able to plug you into one. The 31-20 will sew 33, 46, and 69 threads beautifully. They are not hard to find and a really, really, good one can be found with a roller foot for under $200, sometimes under $100. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted November 22, 2015 That is what I was thinking. Here is a question though. If I have say 2 pieces of 2-3 oz.... Art is trying to explain, you likely won't find ONE machine that will sew 2 oz and 20 oz equally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 23, 2015 Most of us that do varied work will have more than one machine. However to be clear, it is not primarily the thickness you put under the foot, it is the size thread you are sewing with. You can put Z-207 or Z-277 thread in it and adjust it to sew 1/2 inch of leather. You can then sew a couple of 2 oz pieces of leather together adjusting the tension some; you can even sew a dollar bill with that setup. The one thing you really won't be doing is changing the thread size all the time. One size either side of your setup thread size and you can get it going with just a little fiddlin', maybe not even changing the needle, but going down or up two or three sizes is going to require a lot of extra setup. I have known folks who have done this, and their machines never really sew right; you set it up for say Z-138 and you are back there next week adjusting it again because they just had to run Z-69. When I was sailing and racing, I ran with a few sailmakers and took care of their machines for them. They ran every brand of medium duty machine ever made and 92 monofilament with clutch motors from the Starship Enterprise day in and day out and they almost never had problems. Set it up, run it, stop to change bobbins or spools. The lesson here is to set it up, run it, and leave it alone, you can put anything under the foot, it will probably sew it. You want to run something like a different size thread or needle, get another machine. These are industrial machines, they go in factories, they do one thing day after day; that's how they roll. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
l2bravo Report post Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) So this is my first machine. I appreciate the opinions, and all the wisdom. Art, so if I set up my machine for say 277, I can also use some 207, with out much detriment or hassle, if I want to use it for some projects? I can see the problem with trying to sew 277, and then turning around to use 69. Not having used one of these yet, I am familiar with all types of machinery, and do get the idea of never finding the "groove". Thank you guys again, Josh Edited November 23, 2015 by l2bravo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 23, 2015 Josh, Yes, run 277 on top and 207 in the bobbin. You can switch to 207 on top without much hassle maybe a tension tweak to keep the lock in the middle. Use a #24/180 needle. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Massive Report post Posted November 23, 2015 Cobra makes a great machine for heavy work also. You can run very small needles on the saddle machines, but they are very long, expensive and prone to breakage. If it was me, I would look at second hand machines on ebay for the smaller end, there are tons of options there. When you get to the saddle weight end of things, the old machines are often more expensive than the new ones. So if I was planing on spending several thou on a machine, I would go for a new cobra (or cowboy) saddle machine, and pick up the light end second hand. Whatever you do, if the second hand machine is 500 bucks less than a top of the line saddle machine, don't get too excited, doesn't sound like a steal, and shouldn't distract you from getting the right machine for your needs. What limits most system as you go up in weight is the ability of the needle to apply enough tension to get a good stitch. Getting penetration, or a stitch is not that big a deal.but getting the right tension is where the systems get overwhelmed. There are lots of machines out there than can be perfect for what a person wants, but fail due to the feed system. Be sure you have the right feed for the work you are doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
