Mystery Vintage Singer Sewing Machine With Top+Bottom Feed

[Uwe]

I picked up some machinery from a lady who gave me an extra bonus machine she "had sitting around." It's rather old and the unusual part is the Bottom+Top feed mechanism, which reminds me of a Singer 7 class top feeding mechanism, except this one isn't super-sized like the Class 7's.

It has no model identifying marks other than "Singer" script labels. The serial number of G2721050 places it in the year 1913 as a class 16 machine, according to the Singer dating chart . So it's perhaps a Singer 16-141 or 16-188 based on the descriptions in the Singer 16 manual.

If any of you Singer vintage experts recognize this machine, I'd appreciate help in identifying the correct model subclass and any additional info you might have.

Here are some photos of the machine:

Edited December 17, 2015 by Uwe

[pcox]

16-88

[TinkerTailor]

Judging by the groove worn in the casting, that machine has run several metric miles of thread at least.......

[sandyt]

Can't help identify, but that's a nice extra bonus!! Does it work properly?

[Darren Brosowski]

What is the shuttle?

Looks like a 16-88 or 16-188.

If it has the long beak shuttle then it might be the a 42-5

[Uwe]

I took a few more pictures. The Singer 16-88 seems to be the most likely model. Some of the Singer 16-188 pictures I've found date from the 50's. Not sure if the 188 is a follow-up to the 88 or not.

It's actually a very interesting machine with an oscillating shuttle. The bobbin is on the small side. I haven't had a chance yet to try it out, but everything is moving quite smoothly. I'll report back once it's operational.

Here are a few pictures of the bottom and shuttle area of the machine:

[Wizcrafts]

Strip the old paint off and lay down a fresh coat. That machine will be good for another hundred years. I have a 1920s Singer 42-5 getting repainted right now. It is an excellent chaps machine.

[CowboyBob]

pcox is correct the 188 has a narrow(standard) base,the 88 wide base.

Edited December 17, 2015 by CowboyBob

[Constabulary]

I just have ripped apart a Singer 16 drop feed for spare parts (checking if the needle bar works for my dropped 34K) so if you need some extra bits send me a note. I don´t want much for the parts I don´t need. I have a complete shuttle race and all kind of screws, feed dog, needle plate... Just wanted to let you know.

[Uwe]

Thanks for offering Constabulary! I just looked up a few parts at UniversalSewing.com and to my surpise and delight these parts are in stock and cheap! The race assembly is $26 and a shuttle hook is $3.50 (!!!) . Gotta love Singer when it comes to ancient parts availability and prices. Since key parts are readily available, I think I'll give it a proper once-over. Now I'm more excited about this machine than the Singer 111W155 I bought from the lady!

[Constabulary]

Thats one reason why I love these vintage Singers so much - I still can get parts for machines which are older than my mother. Try that with Pfaff or Adler...

[hyttogpine]

Uwe

I cannot give you additio I formation about your new Siger. But what a coincidence.

To week's ago I bought a 111w155 (price 160 $) no accessories and from the same owner I yesterday came home with a Singer 16-188. But it was not a gift, I'd paid 130 $ included some accessories,on a modern base installed with a clutch motor.

Since I'm in need of space is still in the car.

But from what I see of your pictures, both machines are the same. But yours have shiny painting, my is maby a newer machin. The painting is a little bit gray and dim.

On the brass plates: 16-188 !

Do you really think that 16-188 is a better LEATHERmachin than 111W155 ?

At the Christmas time I hope to free my car, then I can take better photos. But for now this two.

Edited December 18, 2015 by hyttogpine

[Uwe]

The Singer 111W155 is the better leather machine in my mind (mainly because of the proper unison feed and hook system), but the Singer 16-88 is a much better and surprisingly more capable machine than I had expected. I paid no attention to the Singer 16 when I picked up the gear, thinking I was doing the lady a favor by helping de-junk her basement.

[hyttogpine]

Oooe ya Uwe, You are nice chap. Helping the old ladies.

But, congratulations with your new Singer.

[Uwe]

I was being serious. I was focused on the stuff I had actually paid for. I glanced at the other unremarkable black machine and thought "great, another straight stitch racehorse nobody wants". Her son just grabbed the 111 with one hand to put in my car - I watched him while holding my breath afraid he'd drop it or hit my car, as I grabbed the other machine. It was all sitting in the driveway with dark clouds overhead when I got there and it started raining just as I was leaving. I was on a mission. It really was when I got home and unloaded the 16 that I noticed all that stuff going on in the back of it.

Congratulations to you, too, for your new arrivals in your shop! We'll be like parents who bond because they had twins at the same time, haha. Perhaps we can share stories and info on the 16s. The 111W155's are well covered, proven and established, but not exactly news. The 16 is indeed new and exciting, at least to me.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Uwe

[hyttogpine]

Buying the 111W155 was absolutely the last machine for me. I knew I would be out of space.

But when I saw this small elegant lady in corner of the old warehouse (witch now been changed and transformed to a building of small apartments) I couldn't leave her, knowing that she and the rest of the equipment of an

128 year proud leather facktery & tannery, are on its way to the junk yard.

The new landlord have already, in the laste two weeks thrown away two machines and a strip 45K25 on a threadle-stand and a lot of accessories in production of horse harness, shoes ect . Ok, I got two small items also for free, a electric cisser (for fabrics) and the manuell driven winder (it's on the second attached thumbnails)

By the way, I'm confused about what compound feed actually is. Do 111K155 or 16-188 have compound sytem or do both have ?

Is the definisjon related to, if the needle is aktiv in feeding the leather or will a passive needle that just follow the leather draw by the upper and lower feed, all so be a compound system ?

Owe, have you found out what needle system 16-188 use ?

In the drawer of my machin is 5 different lengths of needle, the only common are at sewing in fabric. The needle placed at the 16-188 only tells the it size 22.

Unfortunately my English is so poor and the quality of the manual the same, so I cannot guess the meaning.

[Uwe]

Compound feed means the material is moved three ways at the same time: Top Foot + Bottom Feed Dog + Needle

The Singer 111W155 has proper compound feed.

On the Singer 16-188, only the Top Foot + Bottom feed dog move the material. The needle does not help move the material.

The Singer 16-188 takes needles of type 16x63 (fabric) or 16x64 (leather). The needles are available in Europe from CollegeSewing in the U.K. , but the available sizes seem to be limited. The machine can use needles from size 14-25, but I've only seen needles for sale in a few select sizes, up to size 22.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Uwe

[hyttogpine]

Tanks a lot Uwe

[Uwe]

Schmetz has a handy needle size chart that shows how Singer needle sizes match up with modern Nm sizes: