I Bought Another Singer....

[dikman]

I'll pick it up tomorrow, although I'm still not completely sure just what it is!

The seller couldn't quite make out the model number, as it's all pretty grotty, but it sort of looks like it says 111WSV77 - and if anyone can find out anything about this particular model I'll be very impressed! The closest I can find is a youtube reference to a 111WSV71 - but that one is a needle feed, whereas this one appears to be a compound feed. I spent lots of time searching the 'net for any reference to it, and had to get the seller to email me some photos of the foot assembly to confirm it had two feet, needle bar and feed dog (she had no idea what I was talking about).

The youtube video made reference to the SV as being "Special Variance", a special model made for the military and being made with extra heavy/hardened materials. If so, it sounds like a good buy for $150 .

It's been sitting for a couple of years, but she said that the motor works and the needle moves (always a good start) but it will probably need a good cleaning and lubing. The table appears to be a "home-made" job, all welded square tubing, so I'll have to take an angle grinder to cut the legs off to get it in my car. Hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like it might have a speed reducer fitted too (clutch motor). My wife asked if I really need it, I said in all honesty no, but at that price it's a bargain for a 111 series walking foot.

[LumpenDoodle2]

Of course you need it, it's your moral duty to save such a machine from the abuse of just lying there, unused and unloved.

Anyway, you can never have too many sewing machines, especially Singers. ;-)

[dikman]

I should have added these photos (all I've got for now).

[Constabulary]

Tell your wife that you never can have enough cast iron.

This must be a very very early compound feed Machine. The feed dog looks like one from a needle feed machine. Looking for ward to seeing some more pictures.

[dikman]

Yep, I figured it might be pretty old (doesn't even have reverse ). The fact that I can't find any info on it has me intrigued.

[dikman]

Got it home. As I thought, the table is a home-made job, made from 1" square tube, and the top is 1/2" particle board! She didn't really want the table left, so I figured the 1" tube is always useful and I'll junk the top. The motor is an ordinary, garden variety 1/4 HP thing, but the interesting bit was the clutch/pulley fitting (see last photo). Don't know what I can use it for, but it's different.....

To the machine itself. It actually looks to be in pretty good condition. There is surface rust around the needle bar/presser feet, but the insides and underneath are pretty rust-free - but barely a trace of oil anywhere!!!!! I'll have to strip the needle bar area to clean it up, but the rest looks like all it needs is a good oiling.

As you can see from the label, it's definitely part of the 111 class, the W indicates it's made at Bridgeport (confirmed, I reckon, by the Made in USA on top), The SV I mentioned in the first post, but the model no. 77 has me beat. I would welcome any help on this one. In the meantime, can any of you highly knowledgeable chaps relate the photos to any other 111 machines? At least then I'll know which manual to get for it. And it's definitely a compound feed.

The thread tensioner assembly needs a bit of work on it and it looks like something has broken off just above it and to the right - there is a stub of shaft/bolt just showing.

I'll keep my eyes open for a cheap machine just to get a suitable table to use, in the meantime I'll clean it up a bit and get some oil into it (poor thing must be dying for a lube job ). Even with having to junk the rest of it, I'm more than happy with the head unit for $150.

Edit: I did a bit more digging around and it looks very much like the 111W152, so I downloaded the manual. The stitch length is the same (5spi max.) and it even has the thread lubricating box that's shown in the manual. It's strange that there doesn't seem to be any info on the "SV" designation, other than that one youtube vid.

Edited December 20, 2015 by dikman

[Constabulary]

Though it looks a bit nasty I would have bought it too. The upper thread guide is broken off. 111w parts are no problem. New tension units cost about $15 on Ebay and thread guide maybe $5. The timing belt could be a bit dry so I´d probably replace it. I would also switch to a different needle plate and feed dog. My 111G156 was not much better when I have found it and it is working very very well now.

You could make a speed reducer from the old clutch system.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Constabulary

[dikman]

Good idea about the clutch system. I reckon if I weld the rear freewheeling pulley to the adjacent pulley stack then it should work as a speed reducer.

I spent a fair bit of time on it today and it's looking good. The first thing I did was lubricate everything that looked like it would move, using ATF. Before anyone jumps on me, I used that because I wanted something that would lubricate but was very thin in order to work its way into the bearing surfaces. Once it's "soaked" for a while I'll work some heavier oil into it. Basically, everything is working as it should, although the stitch length adjustment is very tight so I've been working extra lube into the mechanism. While the paint finish is chipped and worn that's to be expected, but most of the rust is fairly light surface stuff. The needle bar and presser feet cleaned up ok with steel wool, but the worst are the two plates next to the feed plate with some pitting on them (bit they're still usable).

Timing appears to be correct.

The thread tension assembly needed a bit of work. There was minimal rusting and it cleaned up well, but the thread takeup spring had been butchered by someone. I used a spare from a domestic machine that I'd pulled apart and it only needed tweaking slightly with a pair of pliers (it's surprising the similarity there is between some of the domestic and industrial parts in Singer machines). The tension release didn't work when the presser foot was lifted and at first I thought the operating rod was worn, but that didn't make any sense. Further investigation showed that the lever arm at the rear wasn't lifting enough to push on the rod. I couldn't see any obvious adjustment so a bit of judicious bending with a pair of pliers fixed that. I also had to bend the lever arm on the rear of the tension assembly plate - now it works. Now I just need to make a replacement thread guide and that's it until I can get a table for it.

[dikman]

I downloaded a parts list for a 152 and it certainly appears to match up. I also realised that the handwheel has been fitted back-to-front (!) and figured out how the adjustments for the stitch length adjuster work, so backed it off a fraction and now it's much easier to adjust. I've also realised that the base plate is the same size as the 211G that I have, so I should be able to swap this one onto the table and get it working.

[Constabulary]

I´m also a "Machine Switcher" I run a 111G156, a 307G2 and also a 34K in the same table. That saves a lot of space.

[Wizcrafts]

I´m also a "Machine Switcher" I run a 111G156, a 307G2 and also a 34K in the same table. That saves a lot of space.

I used to do the same thing, way back when I started in the biz. My first industrial sewing machine was a Singer 96k40 (I think) straight stitch machine. When I learned its limitations I bought a 31 class spring foot machine. I found that all I had to do was shift the knee lever to hit the foot lifter tang in different positions and slightly adjust the motor position to account for the slight difference in height of the handwheel pulleys.

Not happy with that setup, I won a Pfaff 138 at an auction and made it fit on the same table, with a little tweaking. Going completely bonkers, I then acquired a Juki LU-563 and got it to fit the same table and knee lever. The table had a Singer 1/2 hp clutch motor. The oil drip pan was steel. I sure got a lot of use out of that one table! Four machine dropped in with very little tweaking.

[dikman]

I hadn't actually thought of it from that perspective, I was only going to do it temporarily just to run it. Hmmm. The only problem I have is that on that particular table I fitted a pulley reducer underneath so it's a bit of messing around changing things. I might have to modify the reducer adjustment to make it quicker to change over, I reckon that will work. It will also save space in not having to fit in another table. Plus that table's fitted with a servo.

Thanks for the idea guys.

[Sovran81]

IMO the ATF is a good choice for the clean up because it is high detergent and thin. It will get into the tight areas and break up any gunk and old grease while providing a lot more lubrication than fuel oil. After you get it all cleaned up, you can switch to a more suitable lube.

[dikman]

Yep, that's what I figured, Sovran, I find ATF is quite handy to keep around .

[dikman]

Ah, the joys of buying an old used machine.

I shifted it to my Singer 211's table.

First problem, no hinges so it listed badly to the rear! I swapped over the hinges - looks like I'll have to make another pair - and at least it then fitted properly. I had to fit a longer motor adjustment bolt to get enough adjustment to fit the belts.

Next problem, the knee lifter didn't do anything, the connecting rod on the machine was too short. Looking at the 211 I noticed that it had an "extension" piece fitted to the end of the lifting rod and it had a small roller wheel on the bottom to ride on the lifting plate. Rather than simply fitting a longer rod I decided to make a similar fitting, using a bearing salvaged from a hard disc drive as the roller. Works well.

Problem #3. Using the knee lifter I now had just over 3/8" clearance under the foot, but with the normal lifting lever I couldn't even get 1/4" of leather under it. I re-adjusted the presser foot, as it appeared to be out of adjustment relative to the vibrating foot, but that didn't help. I then noticed that the lifting lever had a lot of loose play in it so removed it . The lever had an awfully big hole compared to the pin that held it, so I guessed that it should have had a sleeve fitted around the pin. I made a suitable brass sleeve and now have over 1/4" clearance when the feet are lifted.

I then ran the machine, but without thread, and it ran fine. The stitch length adjuster also worked.

Next problem is the missing thread guides. The lower one will be easy to make, but the upper one is a problem (yes, I can get it overseas, and it's pretty cheap, but the shipping....). The problem is the same one I ran into with the Pfaff - the (metal) thread size, in this case, is US and I can't match it with anything I've got, including some of my US dies. I figure I'll find the closest fit to the thread on a piece of rod, drill the guide holes and then either use plumbing tape to pack out the threads or use Loctite.

I'm still not quite sure what I'm actually going to use this machine for .

[dikman]

The upper thread guide proved to be a simpler solution than I expected! Amongst the few bits that came with the machine were two short pieces of rod, one with a thread on the end (which fits the upper mount point) and the other has a hole in the end and a big blob of weld on it!! A closer look and it is (was?) the upper thread guide, which had snapped (!) at the lower guide hole and someone had attempted to arc weld it together. I ground off the weld and cleaned the metal, then silver soldered the two parts together. Drilled another thread hole, polished out the burrs and I now have an upper guide.

Yay!

Now to make a lower guide when it cools off, too hot outside for now.

[LumpenDoodle2]

You've put so much work into it, you'll definately find a use for it now.

[Constabulary]

Dikman - shipping for spare parts is not necessarily expensive. F.I small packages up to 500 Gramms can be shipped from Germany for approx $7 US worldwide. College Sewings cheapest rate is 8.50 GBP afaik

When I order spare parts from the UK or the US it is more expensive but I alway buy some extra screws, springs, needles, bobbins or what ever I think could be useful for one of my machines. You never know - it sucks when you loose a tiny screw while servicing a machine and have to order a 0.50 cent screw and pay $8 for shipping.

Thats what I have in my 111 type parts box - I may have mixed up some screws but I at least know that I have a replacement for most of the easy to loose screws. It´s also nice to have when you find a new (old) machine with missing small parts / screws or so.

[dikman]

Constabulary, do you have any company names for suitable suppliers in Germany, please? Most of my searching comes up with US/UK suppliers. So far I haven't needed to order parts for the Singers to get them going, but at some point I probably will.

Lumpendoodle, part of the enjoyment, for me, is getting these things going again, it's all good fun.

I've made the lower thread guide (I had a devil of a time getting the retaining screw loose!! Probably hadn't been touched for 40 years) so now I just need to thread it up and see what happens.

Yesterday I saw an ad for a Singer 188K for $50, advertised as a light industrial. Came with a nice old treadle table but had been motorized. I was very tempted, but 1) I've got nowhere to put it and 2) I have no need for a "light industrial" straight stitcher. Going to have to watch myself.......

Edited December 29, 2015 by dikman

[LumpenDoodle2]

These old machines can be a bit addictive.

Modern machines just don't have that look, sound, or feel about them.

[Constabulary]

Dikman - No I don´t. I shouldn't have mentioned the shipping from Germany this probably was misleading. I order most parts in the UK or USA because they are cheaper. I meant that you should probably oder some extra parts so the relation to the shipping costs is better.

Parts I don´t find at College Sewing UK I buy form Sharp Sewing they usually charges $8 -$10 for shipping.

http://stores.ebay.de/SHARP-SEWING-SUPPLIES

or ngosew

http://stores.ebay.com/NgoSew-Sewing-Parts-Company?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

or jimtalyinc

http://stores.ebay.com/jimtalyinc?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

Ebay is just easier for me - no phone calls no shop registrations...

[dikman]

Thanks Constabulary, it's worth knowing which places have Singer parts. I'll keep a note of them.

[hyttogpine]

@ dikman

Treadle table.

I have some old industrial sewing machines, all with motors. And I have a wich of one day having them working on treadle table. I last sommer bought a couple of old domestic home sewing machines on treadle stands, but the stands where not wide enough. Do you have possibility to measure between the legs on the treadle table of the 188K you came across ? I guess the distance perhaps will be more than 72 cm / 28 inches.

If you dont have the time or it's geographic impossible, maybe you would send me a link to the salesman. Then I could contact him.

[dikman]

It's for sale on Gumtree (our local ebay site) so I don't know if you will have much success getting the info you want. This is the link - http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/west-richmond/miscellaneous-goods/sewing-machine/1099259648

[Darren Brosowski]

LOL, I should mention that shipping from Australia can be inexpensive too and the exchange rates are pretty good.

Yes, I am talking about my own eBay store. Much of what I sell is not available elsewhere.