Slow Down

[ocharry]

hello all,,,,new here

just need a little help,,,advice from you all

i recently got my hands on a singer 111w152,,,, it had been in storage for a long time but looked surprisingly good paint and decals,,, wow,,, almost new

took it apart and cleaned and oiled,,set tension,,new needle and bobbin,,,, VROOM,,,like it was just used yesterday,,,,very happy

BUT i need to slow it down,,,i changed the drive pulley down to 1 3/4" helped a lot but i need it to go some slower

i like the clutch and power,,,just to fast for what i want to do

any suggestions???

i have read where the servo stuff don't have it down at low speed,,,i need the punch

have looked at the jack shaft pulley thing but that really hangs the motor down low,,,,(in the way maybe)

there has to be a way to get the speed down,,,,some things its ok,,,straight lines great,,,,staying on a curved line where i went it to be,,,not so great,,,,,and maybe that is just an experience thing that will come with time,,,but for now i need to slow it down

always did leather sewing by hand before,,,seems the older i get the harder it is becoming,,,so this machine will make it easier

thx for any input

ocharry

[Wizcrafts]

You can buy a 3:1 speed reducer setup and new belts to match. You'll have some cipherin' to do to install it next to the slot on the underside of the table and two new v-belts to go from the motor to the reducer's big pulley and from its small pulley to the machine. I am afraid that by the time you run a reducer from your small pulley on the motor, that the machine will only turn over at about 1/2 stitch per second, pedal to the metal. You will be there all day if you have to sew around a long belt or strap.

[ocharry]

Thx wizcraft,,,, I think this machin orignaly was running at about 2200 spm,,,, and I think with the smaller pulley I put on the motor it is around 1100 I think about half

I would like for it to be in the 5-600 spm,,, lol,,,, for now anyway,,,,, seems like when I get it to moving it just takes off ,,,, makes a beautiful tight stitch, ,,, just happens to fast for me right now,,,,, lol,,,, maybe later I will need the speed

thx

ocharry

[Wizcrafts]

My bad. I forgot that your motor always spins at 1725 rpm.

So, you've pulley'd it down to 1100 rpm at the machine. A 3:1 reducer will bring that down to about 400 spm, which is about 6 per second. You should be able to feather the clutch to 1 per second. If there is any problem doing that, replace the brake on the motor. After the burn-in period it should let you feather it with ease.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Wizcrafts

[dikman]

Your other option is to remove the handwheel and replace it with a larger pulley - 8" or even 10"! The shaft is 1/2", I think. You would need a longer belt and may need to open out the slot in the table that the belt goes through, but that will slow it down and still give you lots of grunt.

[ocharry]

thanks guys,,,

i am learning how to feather this thing some and it is helping but it is kinda fine,,,when i give it the pedal to get going it takes off and when i back off it stops,,,lol,,,kinda touchy ,,,,, i am sewing leather with it,, when i run it empty it is easy to control,,lol,,,but when i make the punch at start it is gone like a rabbit,,,,could be just a learning curve i will have to over come,,,,it is a sewing mother though i will say that

dikman,,,, i was looking at that last night when i got done sewing with it,,,it has a 3 1/4" pulley on the drive shaft and i think i could go 4.5-5" without any trouble or changing much and that might give me a couple hundred less rpm at the needle

thx

ocharry

[dikman]

Go for the biggest you think you can fit, it all helps. I fitted an 8", along with a servo fitted with a 1 3/4", to try and control my Pfaff!

[Wizcrafts]

I dunno about y'all. I learned to drive in a clutch car, where one has to feather the clutch to get going smoothly. I had a couple of clutch cars of my own. This easily carried over when I started using industrial sewing machines, around mid 1984. I can't be the only person doing leathercraft that learned to feather a clutch.

My latest acquisition is a 1926 Singer 42-5, with a clutch motor. I set the free play where I wanted it and can easily feather it to 1 stitch per second.

[Gump]

Sometimes a clutch will get sticky and grab erratically and not slip as you would like. To fix this I run the motor up to speed, hold the machine pulley tight, turn the motor off and stamp the pedal down until the motor stops. This glazes the clutch and allows it to slip more smoothly. This works well for me doing it just once, but it depends on the condition of your clutch.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Gump

[paprhangr]

when I first got my Consew 206 with a clutch, it took me some time to get control but now I can go as slow or fast as I want.

my start point is pushing the pedal just enough to hear the motor anf feel it wants to go, then push a little more GO.

(pop the clutch in the VW beetle)

[ocharry]

thx guys,,,,yes i did drive a clutch car for years,,,and i still like them

this could all be me,,,and this machine just getting used to each other

i did take the machine apart and clean and oil it and it is really working good and smooth,,,but i didn't do anything to the motor or clutch and it could be it needs some spinning and slipping to get things smoothed out again

i will say it is getting better,,,just by me using it,,,,,just scary when it takes off ,,,lol,,,i am using a 22 needle and 138 thread,,,,i'm sure it would bite pretty hard if you got your finger in the way

ocharry

[dikman]

I too was raised on a clutch car, and ride (clutch) motorbikes, but the first time I fired up my clutch sewing machine it seemed uncontrollable!!! With practice I guess I could master it (eventually) but for my needs I couldn't see the point in fighting it. I need slow speeds, rather than fast, so anything I can do to make it manageable - servos, speed reducers, bigger pulleys - I will do.

My hats off to you guys who can get such delicate control from a clutch sewing machine motor.

[pcox]

I put petroleum jelly on the cork in the clutch to give it a little more slip. singer used to make a product for this. Seen it used first in the shoe factory I worked in 50 years ago.

[Uwe]

Personally, I've never met a clutch motor I liked. Yes, you can learn to drive a car with a manual transmission and a big brick on the gas pedal by only feathering the clutch pedal, but I'm at a loss as to why you would want to. We have the technology to provide power AND control, and it's cheap.

[Wizcrafts]

I am still using clutch motors that were built 20 or 30 years ago. I doubt that my servo motors will last that long.

[Cascabel]

I dunno about y'all. I learned to drive in a clutch car, where one has to feather the clutch to get going smoothly. I had a couple of clutch cars of my own. This easily carried over when I started using industrial sewing machines, around mid 1984. I can't be the only person doing leathercraft that learned to feather a clutch.

My latest acquisition is a 1926 Singer 42-5, with a clutch motor. I set the free play where I wanted it and can easily feather it to 1 stitch per second.

Ya done good getting a 42-5 !! I have one with the original clutch motor. I think mine was made in the 1940's, as it has a modern type V-belt. It is my favorite of all my machines, and gets lots of use. Heavy canvas, garment type leather, upholstery fabrics, all sew exceedingly well on it. I only use my Cowboy for VERY heavy work. My 42-5 will sew anything I can squeeze under the foot, up to almost a half inch thickness. I can feather the clutch to go very slow, and if need be, I can slow it down even more by riding the huge wheel with my hand sort of like a brake. It also will wind a Cowboy bobbin quickly, which beats using the Cowboy bobbin winder.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Cascabel

[ocharry]

well guys it could be just a learning curve,,,,i was sewing heavy denim last night,,several layers,,,like melted butter,,,,i could run slow or fast,,,,was beautiful to watch this horse run,,big smile on my face,,so maybe after i use this thing with the leather for awhile it will get better,,,,the leather layers are probably 3/16 thick so that could be part of the problem,,,,,but i am very happy with this old girl,,but it would be nice to have it run a little slower,,,for now anyway

thx to all

Merry Christmas to all

ocharry

[dikman]

Wiz makes a good point, clutch motors are pretty basic technology, with not a real lot to go wrong. I'm with Uwe, however, the technology is there (and most electronics are pretty reliable these days) so it makes perfect sense to me to utilise it and be able to concentrate fully on learning how to actually sew, rather than trying to tame a runaway sewing machine at the same time!

[Darren Brosowski]

Agreed Wiz.

The more complicated they get the shorter the life span.

I do not sew much as my main aim is just to set machines up but I have no problem controlling machines with a 1425RPM motor and small pulley.

My suggestion to customers is to buy some sheets from the local op shop and spend several days sewing through them with no thread to learn to control the motor.

I am still using clutch motors that were built 20 or 30 years ago. I doubt that my servo motors will last that long.

[TRTermite]

I have had so much help from everyone on this site. One thing no one mentioned to me but i have found is ; My consew 225 was used on one small project 25 plus years ago and has set since. The cork in the clutch is ok and I did Not mess with it (yet) BUT while I had it apart I saw the clutch engaging bearing that slides in the Quill was gummy. I used a "Triflow" spray lubricant (Not WD40) to get it limbered up While it was apart don't forget the slide trunnions . Tremendous difference It is still faster than i care for but I did put a 5" pulley on in place of the balance wheel. and the motor pulley is a 3: and I am going to try a 2" soon. As for getting used to clutches and feathering I am not in a hurry and only doing 6" Max stitches and the back/lock stitch Is NOT fun without reverse. Another note is that I changed treadle from front to back of machine. Then raised the table height. When I had the clutch off of the motor I noticed the Oil port on top of the quill for the clutch/bearing. AND that the face of the motor/clutch assembly can be rotated easily with 3 flange clamps allowing treadle linkage to pull in a STRAIGHT line.. Some of the so obvious yet so easily oversighted issues... SO KEEP thinking and something will happen Thanks to everyone for the help I received here I had NEVER sewn a Machine stitch in my Life and the problem machine i chose to start on was a real Experience.. Would have been near impossible without so much help.