Replacing Full Length Stirrup Leathers On A Western Saddle

[Skipndance]

Hello all. Looking for some guidance here - maybe just reassurance. Long story short, I am getting into saddlery after a long hiatus from horses. I have a Hereford Tex Tan saddle which belongs to a friend of mine. Knowing I am looking for projects learn from, he gave me the saddle to replace the stirrup leathers because one of them was broken. I bought a set of replacement Blevins buckles (vertical posts) and a set of pre-cut/punched Weaver stirrup leathers. I thought it would be a simple swap out. Remove stitching, rivets, punch holes, rivet and stitch new ones.

I got the old ones taken off, picked all the stitching from the holes and got the right size rivets, but then when I was looking at putting them together (not riveted or sewn yet), I realized that the thickness of the new leather is much thicker (maybe 15 oz) than the old ones (maybe 11 oz) and the Blevins buckles won't fit over it. The leather is not pre-stretched (which I found out after I had punched all of the holes to lace it back together), so I was wondering if it should be skived/split down to a comparable thickness, just enough to fit or if there is something else I should be taking into consideration. I couldn't find anything in writing that details the steps for replacing stirrup leathers on a western saddle. Most is high level like "replace old leathers with new leathers and reassemble" but I'm finding that in doing it the first time, I feel like I'm missing something.

Please explain any recommendations step by step as though to someone who knows nothing and feel free to ask any questions which aren't answered in the info above.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Thor]

First question would be if you could provide a picture of the whole saddle. Second, what's the fender looking like and what about the other fender??? Maybe it would be smart to replace both saddle leathers if not the whole fenders as well. Don't know as you didn't say anything about their state.

[Skipndance]

First question would be if you could provide a picture of the whole saddle. Second, what's the fender looking like and what about the other fender??? Maybe it would be smart to replace both saddle leathers if not the whole fenders as well. Don't know as you didn't say anything about their state.

Hi and thanks for your reply. I don't have a full picture of the saddle with the stirrup leathers on it. I took this one I've attached before I cleaned it or dismantled the fenders/stirrup leathers. The saddle itself is older but not thrashed. I am replacing both stirrup leathers, but the fenders themselves are in good shape. I don't think they need to be replaced. The second picture is of the right side fender. I had to reduce the size of the image to fit, but I hope you are able to see what you are looking for.

In the picture in my original post, it was showing how the leather was broken. It looked like someone ripped the leather crossways (I have no idea how unless it got caught on a fencepost as the horse spooked and bolted or something high impact like that) but then rather than replacing the stirrup, they used something the thickness of pig skin or glove leather and zigzag stitched it across. Of course, that eventually let go and apparently snapped the end of the old Blevins buckle at the post.

I basically just want to know if it is acceptable to skive or split a few millimeters so that it fits in the buckle.

It could also use a reline as it's worn in a few places, but I don't think that's on the menu for this time.

[Josh Ashman]

Are you saying the slide piece of the Blevins buckle won't slide over the punched end of the new stirrup leather you got from Weaver? I've used those replacement leathers a few times and never had a problem with them. Did you get a full set of new Blevins buckles or are trying to re-use the old slide?

As far as how I'd go about it, from where you are I would do the following;

1) Figure out the sleeve thickness issue. If your trying to re-use the old slides I'd just buy new ones and carry on. I can't imagine new slides not working.

2) Figure out how long you need the new leathers to be. Maybe you already did this.

2) Rivet the fender, post part of the buckle and stirrup leather together. Sew them if you like, with 3 #8 copper rivets I don't bother.

3) This is an important one and something you might not think to do. Fold the fender and stirrup leather over where it would wrap around the stirrup before you mark where to attach the top of the fender. If the fender and stirrup are laid out and put together flat then they won't be right when you put it all together. The end of the fender needs to be longer than the stirrup leather to account for it being on the outside of the fold.

4) Oil/grease the leathers especially where they go over the bars.

5) Put it all back together.

Hopefully that makes sense and is helpful. If not then I suppose it's good that it was free . Al Stohlman's saddle encyclopedias (mostly volume #1 for what you're looking at) and the Dusty Johnson saddle makng video would be good references for you that are not free. These are both relatively inexpensive and would give you a better ides of what to do.

Anyway, good luck and have fun!

Josh

[Josh Ashman]

I also could have added I wouldn't worry too much about pre-stretching the leathers. It's a fine thing to do but I really can't see skipping it being a problem. The leathers I've used from Weaver were cut out of very firm good leather up along the back where they should be cut from, they will have a minimal amount of stretch to begin with. For a recreational rider you'd be hard pressed to ride enough to have those streach and if they do just adjust the length accordingly.

I also wouldn't worry about relining it. That's more work and money than it's worth. Just get a decent pad and it's a non-issue.

All the best,

Josh

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I second pretty much everything Josh says. Stirrup leather replacement is probably the single most common repair I do. In nearly 25 years in business, there has only been a couple times that I can remember where the sleeve wouldn't fit over the leather. In that case, I just ran the leather through my splitter and took off only enough to allow the sleeve to fit. I use to cut all my own replacement leathers; time and space constraints finally forced me to buy my replacement leathers from Weaver. Although the quality control has been at times lacking on what they've sent me (flesh cuts, cut too low in the side, marked difference in weights of a pair) there has never been a pair that I had to split down since I started buying them. Unlike Josh, I do pre-stretch every single set that goes in a saddle. I get between 2-1/2-3" of stretch out of each one, which if you think about it, adds up to the one holes difference between the side you mount on and the off side over time. Yes you can compensate by adjusting for the hole's worth of difference, MAYBE, but have I found it really annoys the clients. In fact, another common repair job is the client wanting me to get the stirrup leathers even and matched up, even on a set that doesn't need replacing yet. Another really good argument for pre-stretching the leathers, we've all seen fenders with that little tear (sometimes not so little) in the corner where the fender leg joins the body of the fender. That can be caused by a number of things, but I know one thing that can cause it is when the stirrup leather stretches and the fender doesn't. Same thing with the fender tearing out at the top. On a saddle with some age on it that fender is going to tear before it stretches to match the stretch of the stirrup leather. You obviously have to buy the unpunched blanks (as opposed to pre-punched) if you pre-stretch. This extra step does add at least a day, better if two, even longer in really humid weather. Extra steps and time adds to higher cost to the customer. It's no secret around here that I'm the highest priced shop in the area. A big part of my job is EDUCATING the customers. If they are shopping by price only, I don't want them as clients. If they are looking for a quality job done correctly the first time around, and cost is secondary, those are the people I want as clients. There is a usually a reason for a marked difference in pricing. I do what I can to educate, the rest of it they have to learn by experience, and sometimes, those folks end up the best and most loyal customers! It took me a lot of years to figure this stuff out on my own, and I sure wish I'd had someone to tell me instead of learning it the hard way.

Something I will never do is re-use the Blevins buckles or slides. They will not last two sets of stirrup leathers, even if after the first set they are not completely shot. For the extra cost of the new set of buckles, it's not worth the trouble of having to replace just the buckle halfway through the life of the second set of leathers. Hope this helps!

Edited February 7, 2016 by Big Sioux Saddlery

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

I agree with both Josh and Big. Do it right the first time.

Bob

[Skipndance]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the lull in conversation. In addition to these leather projects, my day job contract is coming to an end this week, so I'm actively interviewing and everything that goes along with that process.

Anyway, Josh - thanks for your comments.

1) Apparently the thickness is not an issue after all. I don't know what I had done the last time (it's been a while), but I lined everything up again to check it again after your comments and the slides, posts and leathers all fit together fine. To answer your other questions, I bought full Blevins sets. It didn't occur to me that you could buy just the posts and reuse the slides even though that's not recommended.

2a) I measured the new leathers against the old ones and cut them to the same length from the non-punched end.

2b) I riveted the post ends in but haven't sewn it in yet. I think I should sew them since the original ones were sewn it and I think it would look funny to have perforated edges on the fender legs.

3) You are absolutely correct! This one I wish I had read before I got so far along. I did exactly what you thought I might do and laid out the old leathers on the new ones and marked the holes where the ties were at the top of the fender and the rivet holes at the bottom of the fender. Now if I do as you suggested, it doesn't quite line up - just like you said it wouldn't. Considering the stretch question, I am wondering if I should punch the set of holes for the ties about 2 inches lower than I did so the leathers have room to stretch without stressing the fenders. I was told that is a way to still stretch them at this point - wet them, turn the stirrups and then put 25 lb weights on each side and let it stretch in the curve of the leathers and leave the fender without pressure.

4) Will do

5) Almost there!

I've been gradually collecting Dusty Johnson's materials. I got Saddle Savvy first at his suggestion. I just got the DVD, but haven't had a chance to watch it yet. Looks like that's next on my playlist.

Big Sioux, thanks for the detailed response. Since the leathers are pre-punched, it sounds like pre-stretching isn't an option, but if I were to leave some slack in the fender so it doesn't put stress on the areas you mentioned, would that be a viable alternative to a full stretch? Blevins buckles are relatively inexpensive to replace. It doesn't make sense to me to go cheap on that.

Just out of curiosity and for future reference: How would you usually stretch the leathers? Do you have some kind of medieval rack? I don't have a drawdown stand and am trying to think of what kind of contraption I could rig up to stretch them.

Thanks again for all of the contributions!

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Yes Skip, if you leave a little extra slack in the fenders it would certainly be better than nothing. What I often do is after riveting in the Blevins buckle but before riveting the tops, insert the stirrup leathers as you would for final assembly. Add a little curve to the assembly as it would be hanging on a horse, as there IS a slight difference over laying it flat on the bench and just folding it where it's supposed to fold. Then mark your holes on the stirrup leathers in this position, adding a bit of additional slack to allow for stretch. If you add too much the fender wants to buckle and not lay flat, but just enough so that with weight in the stirrup, the fender is not tight.

As far as my stretching apparatus: very simple, a 2 x 4. I nail the poor end of the stirrup leather down on one end and punch 3 holes through the good end, the center hole one being larger than the outside 2. Through the center hole I put a spike, or awl, and using a series of holes drilled into the 2x4, stretch the leather tight. I'll rub the leather hard with a slicker (also having rubbed saddle soap on the wet leathers first) and pull it away from the 2 x4 to gain additional stretch. I will normally get 2-1/2 to 3" of stretch out of a leather. The process also reduces the thickness and compresses the fibers. Before I moved into my current shop, when I had larger quarters, I had a bench top with the series of holes drilled in the top and would stretch the leathers on the bench. That bench was pretty much dedicated to stretching leathers and remains my method of choice. My current 2x4 method allows me to put it out of the way when not in use, plus you are not limited to stretching what you can get on your benchtop, nor are you tying up bench space. In theory, I can stretch as many pairs of stirrup leathers as I have 2x4's. But I still like the benchtop better. I wish I could give credit where credit is due for using this method, because I did not come up with it on my own, but I don't remember where I first heard it. There is one type of stirrup leathers that I DON'T pre-stretch. . . half leathers that have the reinforcing strip of latigo sewn down the center. I buy those also from Weaver, pre-sewn and pre-punched, so stretching them is not an option. I stock a few in case someone wants them, but I flat refuse to make them because I feel it is such a waste of time. IMO, that strip of latigo is a gimmick, and when a saddle comes in with that type of leathers in it, I try to talk the customer out of replacing them with the same. Every one I've ever seen, after a little use the latigo strip is loose from the main leather because the stitches on the back side wear through from rubbing on the rigging, or the skirt, or wear leather or whatever happens to be underneath it, and you have two separate light pieces of leather for your stirrup leather instead of one good, solid, heavy piece. Then the Blevins posts start to not go all the way through both pieces of leather, and it all goes downhill from there. I guarantee my stirrup leather jobs for ten years, but that type, if the customer insists, gets no guarantee at all.

Just a word of advice, your very next project should be to make yourself a drawdown stand if you don't want to buy one. I'm no carpenter, (and I'm female as well) but I built my own over 25 years ago, and even though I bought a Saddlemaster 360 from Weaver awhile back, I still prefer my old stand. Somewhere there are plans or instructions for building one, and even for making the ratchet yourself (which I did), but once again, I don't remember where I found them. My memory is good, it's just short:-) Best of luck to you!

Edited February 9, 2016 by Big Sioux Saddlery