Moderator Wizcrafts Posted February 11, 2016 Moderator Report Posted February 11, 2016 One complicating factor with the clutch motor on my machine: when the motor is powered up and sits idle, if I turn off the power and then without any power to the machine depress the pedal to turn the flywheel by hand the machine runs away with four or five stitches even though it is not powered up. It seems to spool up tension while sitting idle with the motor running. If I hold the flywheel firmlyl and depress the pedal it tries to move, but the tension dissipates as I hold the flywheel and then I can turn the flywheel by hand to check stitch length, etc. The motor pulley is about 2 inches. But to the subject, the servo I am looking at is a 550 watt, adjustable from 0 to 3450 rpm, 110 volt rated at 3/4 hp. I think it is the same as the Family Sew 550s servo. Is that enough wattage to run the machine with out the reducer for a month or two, or is that underpowered? The speed reducer I am looking at has three pulleys -- I am not sure about the ratio. That is the same setup I have. It was setup that way by Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. Other dealers may do the same things to machines they sell. As I said earlier tonight, my FS-550s motor alone had trouble driving the big machine from a dead stop into a double thickness of 10-12 oz bridle leather, at low speed settings. These motors have much less torque at slow speeds that clutch motors. The 3:1 speed reducer adds the torque that is missing to get the machine sewing without handwheeling it from a dead stop. You noticed that your clutch motor continues turning the machine after you power it off. It is one of their foibles because they are so powerful. Servo motors have a tiny bit of power after you turn them off, but not more than one or two stitches, if it was set to a higher speed when you last ran it. Long time operators of machines with clutch motors learn to heel back hard on the floor pedal to lock the brake in place. The motor keeps turning but the machine doesn't. I heel back, raise the feet with the knee lever, pull the work out, cut the threads and move along. All the while, the motors keeps spinning until it simply runs of of go. I think you will be very happy with a FS-550s motor and 3:1 reducer combo. Make sure the dealer supplies the proper set of v-belts. You need two belts of radically different lengths. I think my motor to big pulley on the reducer is about 38 inches, while the small reducer pulley to the machine is about 59 inches. Both are type 3L belts. Ask for the best welded belts they offer. Belts are made differently by different manufacturers. Some cheaper ones are welded out of alignment and will cause a thump once per revolution. This becomes a serious shake at higher speeds. An opened v-belt that lies perfectly flat on a flat table will usually run true. Quote Posted IMHO, by Wiz My current crop of sewing machines: Cowboy CB4500, Singer 107w3, Singer 139w109, Singer 168G101, Singer 29k71, Singer 31-15, Singer 111w103, Singer 211G156, Adler 30-7 on power stand, Techsew 2700, Fortuna power skiver and a Pfaff 4 thread 2 needle serger.
Members llucas Posted February 11, 2016 Author Members Report Posted February 11, 2016 Wiz, thanks for sharing your experience and practical wisdom. Most helpful. Quote
Members dikman Posted February 11, 2016 Members Report Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Those clutch motors are actually very nicely made motors, well balanced and with excellent bearings. They also have a very hefty flywheel inside, which is why, when you turn them off, they will keep spinning for ages and can still turn over the machine if engaged (in other words, be very careful where you put your fingers!). I have three servos, all the same brand, 2 x 550w and 1 x 750w. All of them stop dead when I take my foot off the pedal. Edited February 11, 2016 by dikman Quote Machines wot I have - Singer 51W59; Singer 331K4; Seiko STH-8BLD; Pfaff 335; CB4500. Chinese shoe patcher; Singer 201K (old hand crank)
Members llucas Posted February 11, 2016 Author Members Report Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Thanks to all who contributed answers to my question. Taking in all your observations I think I will purchase the servo first (even if I need to assist it with the hand wheel) and then the speed reducer. Two dealers have told me it probably will not have enough torque without the speed reducer. But with my limited ability to stitch with the machine I suspect if I got the reducer first and used it for a while with the clutch motor I still would not be able to slow it down enough to do good work. As a novice, probably none of the options will work for me until I have both the servo and the reducer. Maybe I should sell my redundant Porter Cable router on craigslist instead of waiting, lol. Edited February 11, 2016 by llucas Quote
Members TinkerTailor Posted February 11, 2016 Members Report Posted February 11, 2016 I have to admit, with the price of the reducer as an add on and what you get for it, I probably would have built my own if my machine did not come with one. On my next machine, I have started to get ideas to clean up the underside of my table with one of these and a cogged flat belt to the motor. I have found them for 30-50 bux in the past. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DODGE-SPEED-REDUCER-5-1-RATIO-SHAFT-DRIVE-430-INCH-POUNDS-/161095311448?hash=item2582076058:g:7yAAAMXQzH9SHNHi Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
Members llucas Posted February 12, 2016 Author Members Report Posted February 12, 2016 I have to admit, with the price of the reducer as an add on and what you get for it, I probably would have built my own if my machine did not come with one. On my next machine, I have started to get ideas to clean up the underside of my table with one of these and a cogged flat belt to the motor. I have found them for 30-50 bux in the past. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DODGE-SPEED-REDUCER-5-1-RATIO-SHAFT-DRIVE-430-INCH-POUNDS-/161095311448?hash=item2582076058:g:7yAAAMXQzH9SHNHi Wholesale for the reducer is about $135.00; the servo is $109.00. Odd that the motor is less that a pulley setup, but there you go. All my tools that would allow me to build a pulley setup are in storage at the moment. I am thinking I need to find the money and get it over with. Buy what is needed and only cry once. Quote
Members dikman Posted February 12, 2016 Members Report Posted February 12, 2016 The other option is to use a servo and fit a larger pulley to the machine itself. This will have the effect of slowing things down and retaining torque. Quote Machines wot I have - Singer 51W59; Singer 331K4; Seiko STH-8BLD; Pfaff 335; CB4500. Chinese shoe patcher; Singer 201K (old hand crank)
Moderator Wizcrafts Posted February 12, 2016 Moderator Report Posted February 12, 2016 The other option is to use a servo and fit a larger pulley to the machine itself. This will have the effect of slowing things down and retaining torque. This could be really expensive, as his machine is an Adler 205-370. It is what it is. Quote Posted IMHO, by Wiz My current crop of sewing machines: Cowboy CB4500, Singer 107w3, Singer 139w109, Singer 168G101, Singer 29k71, Singer 31-15, Singer 111w103, Singer 211G156, Adler 30-7 on power stand, Techsew 2700, Fortuna power skiver and a Pfaff 4 thread 2 needle serger.
Members llucas Posted February 12, 2016 Author Members Report Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) All of your answers and suggestions convinced me to break the monthly budget: I just ordered both the servo and the speed reducer along with new belts. It struck me that if I tried to make a diy reducer or buy different size pulleys for the machine itself I would be spending almost as much as the price of the commercial reducer. Plus, the comments and suggestions indicated I probably would not be happy with the lack of torque in the servo without the reducer and I felt like using a reducer with this old clutch motor would not be the best for me -- since I cannot sew well yet. So, I bought what was needed so I would only cry once. I will sell that extra Porter Cable router on craigslist to save my budget. Thanks for all your help, it is very much appreciated. Edited February 12, 2016 by llucas Quote
Members TinkerTailor Posted February 12, 2016 Members Report Posted February 12, 2016 Once you get it setup, the crying will stop when you see how tame your machine will be. Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
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