Wondering About The Fit

[cleanview]

I have been a little discouraged when people pick up there holster or handle them at gun shows.

The pick them up and act like they cant get them out. I handle them and think they fit as I think they should. I always tell them that they have to break them in. I encourage them to dry fire a few times ever night and within a week it will be perfect. I repeatedly have people tell me that "yep, just like you said....It fits perfect now"...Of course i dont hear from every person and admit that I have only been doing this as a business a little over a year.

The other night I made a 1911 avenger and experimenting.....I wrapped with plastic sheathing and then molded more aggressively on the ejection port and have to admit it was a different feeling to the holster once dried. I typically oil the gun and mold without any wrapping. In my mind it seems like, since they always loosen up as they are broken in, then the 1911 experiment above may get to loose??

any input, experience or opinionas??

[JLSleather]

Depends on how you make em, really. Those "50/50" pancakes are the worst culprit, I think. You know.. the front and back are basically mirror image of each other. Feels okay, mostly, but tighter on the belt than in the hand. And the closer the slots are to the weapon the more pronounced the problem. I see those "pancake" holsters that are bent back around so the slots line up and sometimes wonder if the guy making them has ever USED one. Notorious for binding, especially on the front site.

But hopefully, the gun isn't relying on a pushed-in trigger area or port to retain the firearm. "Retention" isn't about forming a 'catch' somewhere. Or, maybe it is - what do I know

And sometimes it's just a matter of trying to hold it still while pulling the gun. When it's worn, the belt should do that (IF the belt size is the slot size), but in the hand, not so much.

Edited February 13, 2016 by JLSleather

[chiefjason]

I tell my customers leather always loosens. They all start off tight. I don't make any excuses for it. Just the way it is. I also tell them to wear it around the house until they are comfortable wearing it out and about. Of course, I sent one out last week that felt a little looser than others. Guy loved it. So go figure.

The leather you use has a lot to do with it too. I got some really stiff leather a month ago. Made some great holsters. Some of them took about a week to break in. I used the spine area for the backs. It took a long time to break in. Made myself one from it so I had to deal with it too. I make all of mine flat backed, so they tend to break in faster and be less effected by the belt.

[cleanview]

almost all of mine are wrap arounds, like avengers.........ans I learned my lesson (on here) about not digging in to deep on the trigger guard, and I explain to people .....retention does not come from the ejection port or trigger, but from the forming of the holster which provides all the surface contact .....how I understand and explain it.....

My little holster business really ahead of where I thought I would be after a year......so many little things to pick up that I guess only come by experience ....

[George B]

Different strokes for different holster buyers. All of mine are tight with as much contact with the weapon as possible. Unless the buyer wants it different. I have had a few occasions where the weapon was too tight for the customer's satisfaction. A small shipment of KG-9 solved the problem.

I make the so called 50/50 pancakes and that is the only style of pancake that I make. I do not make flat backs. No particular reason, just don't.

I have not had any of the problems discussed by some makers, guess I'm just lucky.

Over the last 6 years I have sold quite a few of them and have a large repeat customer base because of the retention they offer.

Maybe they are not for everyone but they have done just fine by me.

With Avengers I make them tight as all get out figuring that after breaking in they will have less tension across the front and lose some of the retention.

Can't say I'm any kind of expert, its just my humble opinion.

[cleanview]

thanks george

[Modad2010]

I'm with the other guys here, I like them to fit tight when new. One thing that you can tell you customers to do is to put their weapon in a Wal-Mart bag or zip-lock bag and then insert the weapon into the holster and leave it over night. I'm also one of these guys that wrap the front and back ends around and yeah I've worn this type of holster a bunch. I've never had an issue with my front sight hanging up. I do, however mold a sight channel into all of my holsters.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Modad2010

[JLSleather]

You mold a site channel in a "traditional" pancake? uhh.. okay ....

[JLSleather]

I see my site is down this morning. "Should" be back running shortly. Reason I put that here . I'l be uploading a good number of FREE holster patterns over the next 2-3 weeks as I get time.

I'm taking a break from holster making for a while -- truth is I have other skills which pay better

But the patterns should be available... always like to see folks improving their leather skills. NOTE: wrinkles do not belong on leather holsters.. not even on the back side

Nope, site still not fixed. In the mean while, the patterns over at cutesy have been reduced to $2.75 ea.

Edited February 22, 2016 by JLSleather

[Modad2010]

Why wouldn't you mold one into a "traditional" pancake holster? Milt sparks holsters, Matt Delfatti, John Rolston at 5Shot leather, and Kramer all mold sight channels into their pancakes. It's as simple as securing 3/16" - 1/4" dowell rod to the top of the weapon or mold gun and doing your wet mold.

[JLSleather]

Got a picture of that? I think if you look down at a pancake holster from the top you'll see my point.

[Modad2010]

I know your point and I've looked down into plenty of holsters. I know that where the two pieces come together in front of the slide creates a little v-shaped channel, but definitely not enough to create a reliable sight channel. Check out the websites for Milt Sparks, 5Shotleather, and Kramer - there's plenty of pictures. Tony Kanalley at Milt Sparks was mentored by Milt himself and John Rolston was mentored by Lou Alessi, two of the most well known and respected holster makers ever. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. I'm not trying to start some kind of feud, but I did a Lot of research when I started making holsters and tried to learn everything I could from the people that were considered the best in the trade (Sparks and Alessi) and putting a sight channel into all of my holsters was one of those things. The only exception being a cowboy rig.

[JLSleather]

Yeah. So, you would agree that a (50/50) pancake holster is tighter on the belt than in the hand, or not? I mean, where you do think this 'tighter' is coming from? SOMETHING is moving... where do YOU think it comes from?

A couple of points you may or may not care about...

This video was uploaded actually to make fun of some folks who thought they knew something about holster retention. Listen, and you can hear my pneumatic chair bouncing and me trying not to laugh out loud

And this one (not the same holster) is for the shield 9mm. Looking from the front, the seam is clearly center. Now, when you push that front slot IN toward the body, what do you suppose happens to that space in front of the weapon? This of course is less noticeable on an obese person, since on a slim person the holster curves MORE.

Edited February 22, 2016 by JLSleather

[Modad2010]

Did this take a turn? A holster is definitely tighter on the belt due to the inward tension. That tension pulls the front panel tighter to the body, also closing the gap left by the stitch line - all the more reason to mold in a sight channel. If I'm not mistaken, the photos of your holsters show a slight inward curve that was done in the molding process. Also in your photos it appears that there is some deep molding inside the trigger guard area, I presume, to aid in weapon retention. All of the holsters I build have retention as shown in you video or they don't leave my shop.

[Modad2010]

I'm sorry to have somewhat hijacked this thread, I apologize and will refrain from posting further.

[chiefjason]

On my flat backs I use a 3/4 sight channel. Otherwise it molds right down to the frame. And my stitch line is even with the inside of the frame, not the middle. Front sight drag is no good. Just throwing that out there since the topic came up. Different process than traditional pancakes. In case anyone cares. lol

[JLSleather]

Yep, different process But we don't largely want to hear actual facts around here ... much better to have someone pat us on the head and tell us we're doing good. Maybe stems from so many people's fear of actually sharing something useful (but I'm just guessing)?.

Who knows... maybe I shouldn't guess before the coffee is ready?

Edited February 23, 2016 by JLSleather

[cleanview]

i would not call it hi jacking.......have been away for a few days......

dialog is what I really look for.....and it is amazing what can be ;learned from different peoples opinons and methods. I can learn from opinions that I agree with and the ones that I disagree with. Heck, I guess opinions that I dont undertand create in me a desire to learn more.

please comment on my opinion here.....it seems to me that people go about gaining retention 2 different ways. 1. mimicking the necessities of a kydex, they form into the trigger and ejection port to get a snapping into place effect. 2. creating as much good surface contact area as possible by forming, or boning in. Since I only have a few years of experience, my curiosity is if method number one mentioned above only became prominent after kydex became prevalent in holster making? I have no idea, but the answer by some that have done it longer would help me prove or disprove some personal thoughts.

[Modad2010]

You know I remember when this forum was a great place to get onto and discuss leather working in general and now not so much. It's no wonder that this sub-forum has so few people on it anymore, if someone does not share the same opinion that the "self proclaimed expert" does they "don't largely want to hear actual facts" and "just want to be patted on the head and told they're doing good". Well, I guess I'd rather be patted on the head and told I'm doin" good by the likes of Tony Kanally, John Ralston, Mark Garrity, Jay Nelson and Matt Delfatti than the likes of you any day. JLS it's crap like this that make folks not want to be a part of a forum like this and exactly why several people are no longer here. Oh by the way, I watched your little video again, I think a good bunch of your retention is coming from the front sight hanging up on the inside of your holster! I could be wrong, but what do I know, maybe I just need a cup of coffee!

[JLSleather]

Yikes! No need to be sensitive. Got some good tips? Just show us the pictures, no worries

[cleanview]

I personally mold a site channel in pancakes.......dont bother me that others dont or tell me that I should not.........

the above comment reflects the reason that I come to this forum

Amongst my peers or those that simply admire holsters, I am the "cats meow"...."wow....thats awsome"........I come here where people have more "time in service" (military analogy) with hopes of some other points of view, critiques, or sense of accomplishment, when some one with more knowledge and experience says "hey, your gettin better....or good job" ......

I suppose when I have been doing it as long as some of the people on here, I may may get stronger opinionated and set in my way as the best way.....for now I come here because I am still figuring out the way "I" want to do it.

Just my opinion in regards to the deviated path this thread has taken.....

I am appreciative

[George B]

Have to agree. This place used to be a wonderful spot to gain knowledge, help and that pat on the head. These days its a lot of so called experts poking the bear and then acting like "you" are the sensitive one.

I sold a total of 337 pancake holster last year alone. I made them "my" way and have had only one returned because 8 oz. leather was not heavy enough.

I make a living doing this and don't have the time for all the "expert" BS that goes on here.

I'm done. You all have a good life and I'll enjoy mine.

Taking the shortcut off the puter and ending my membership.

Bye.

[longun45]

Too bad the video is down.

[JLSleather]

  All the video was about was to say that holding a holster upside-down with a "blue" gun means nothing at all. 

[JLSleather]

kick this to the front lines again.  I been gittin lots of questions about EXACTLY this type of thing... like as in a '50/50' pancake holster does not fit the same way (or FUNCTION the same) on a 100-lb guy as it does on a 250-lb guy.

So, I'll do a complete work-up (write up) on why this is, but honestly it's not that technical and that pic should point to the issue for people who have seen this issue.