211G166 Stitch Length?

[dikman]

This is one for the experts, 'cos I'm stumped.

The manual states that the 166 can do down to 5 spi - the best mine can do is 7spi. I've pulled the stitch length regulator mechanism apart and it's working fine. When it's doing 7spi there is no more adjustment left in the regulator, so I can't see how I can get it to 5spi.

So I'm puzzled. What am I missing here?

[gottaknow]

Take a piece of paper, put it under the feet. Unthread the needle and turn the hand wheel by hand, poking holes in the paper. Then measure the stitch length. Repeat the process, this time paying close attention to to movement of the holes in the paper. The holes should never move back towards you. If they do, lower your feed dogs until they only move forward. At no time when the machine is set to max stitch length should the feed dogs contact the throat plate.

Regards, Eric

[Coeta]

Examine the attached pic f=forward r= reverse stitches,,,the holes are not uniformly round they are longish,,this indicates to me that the feed are not correctly set as the needle is cutting the paper. will use your advise on lowering the feeddogs.

on the reverse SPI - this is not close what supposed to be still struggle with the settings

The front and rear gap at the feeddog in the throatplate on max SPI must the feeddog have the same size gap for forward and rear stitch or do they differ?

[dikman]

Taking Eric's advice I started examining the feed dog area (it wouldn't have occurred to me to check that otherwise) and have got it down to 6spi. I don't think I can get any better.

When the needle entered the feed dog it was centred ok, but I noticed, under a magnifier, that as the needle came out it was being pushed against the front edge of the dog! I re-adjusted the dog, but there was always a point where it wasn't centred! Much scratching of my bald head and I finally saw that as the centre foot was at the rearmost position, foot down, it was actually being pushed forward slightly by the outer foot which caused the needle/bar to also move. It was very, very slight, but it obviously didn't need much movement to be a problem.

This machine came fitted with a large, thick left-toe-only outer presser and I left it on because it meant I could get closer to the right edge of the material when using an edge guide. It also came with a couple of spare feet, one of which is a "standard-type" foot (wide left toe/narrow right toe) so I fitted this. Result, down to 6spi and no more rubbing of the inner/outer feet. I ground off the "high" part of the offending foot to stop it binding, but I'll probably leave the other foot on for now.

Eric, the feed dog doesn't show any movement back towards me. I watched it very carefully with a magnifier and couldn't see anything untoward. I just ran a line of stitching around the edge of a gunbelt and it worked fine, so I think 6spi is as good as I'll get.

Thanks again, mate, if you hadn't pointed me to the feed dog I wouldn't have found it and I could have had wear problems further down the track.

[gottaknow]

Taking Eric's advice I started examining the feed dog area (it wouldn't have occurred to me to check that otherwise) and have got it down to 6spi. I don't think I can get any better.

When the needle entered the feed dog it was centred ok, but I noticed, under a magnifier, that as the needle came out it was being pushed against the front edge of the dog! I re-adjusted the dog, but there was always a point where it wasn't centred! Much scratching of my bald head and I finally saw that as the centre foot was at the rearmost position, foot down, it was actually being pushed forward slightly by the outer foot which caused the needle/bar to also move. It was very, very slight, but it obviously didn't need much movement to be a problem.

This machine came fitted with a large, thick left-toe-only outer presser and I left it on because it meant I could get closer to the right edge of the material when using an edge guide. It also came with a couple of spare feet, one of which is a "standard-type" foot (wide left toe/narrow right toe) so I fitted this. Result, down to 6spi and no more rubbing of the inner/outer feet. I ground off the "high" part of the offending foot to stop it binding, but I'll probably leave the other foot on for now.

Eric, the feed dog doesn't show any movement back towards me. I watched it very carefully with a magnifier and couldn't see anything untoward. I just ran a line of stitching around the edge of a gunbelt and it worked fine, so I think 6spi is as good as I'll get.

Thanks again, mate, if you hadn't pointed me to the feed dog I wouldn't have found it and I could have had wear problems further down the track.

No worries. That's a really good way of seeing exactly what's going on without guessing. I figured if you looked at it that way it would become obvious. If you watch Uwes video with his binder, you'll see the center foot pushing back quite a bit. At high speed with a garment needle feed machine, the slightest back feeding will cause some real headaches. New mechanics want to raise feed dogs if a machine is feeding poorly. Once they see what the paper reveals, it takes the guesswork out of making adjustments.

Regards, Eric

Edited March 15, 2016 by gottaknow

[Ole South]

It's not the feed dog motion that causes problem. If it's too high, as the dog begins to return it will still be engaging the material from beneath thus dragging the piece backward a little or a lot shortening the next stitch when the needle pins the fabric. Lower the dog to half a tooth (or a quarter tooth) above the plate, then raise dog height an 1/8 of a tooth at a time until you get where you want to be.

[dikman]

Interesting point. The dog is set according to the manual, but I'll check with the magnifier again. I might as well have a play with the height as it's about the only thing I haven't adjusted yet!

[dikman]

I watched the movement carefully under a magnifier and there's no sign of the material being moved backwards. Everything seems to be functioning correctly, so I figure I've got it as good as it's going to be.

My 111WSV77 will do 4 1/2 spi, but it doesn't have reverse (which I've gotten used to!) and the 166 just feels a bit smoother overall. The 77 also has a left-toe-only foot, and I just found out it will fit the 166, so now I'll be able to get a bit closer to the edge on belts.

Oh, one other thing, I also have a long-slot feed dog for the 166 - when would you use this?

Edited March 16, 2016 by dikman