Need Help Deciding On A Sewing Machine

[robb01]

Ready to purchase my first sewing machine and I've looked hard at the Cowboy 3200, and think that may be the best route, just wanted some advice.

I hand sew at present and typically work with ~4 oz leather, most of my leather goods are wallets, portfolios, notebook covers. Wanting to also expand into belts (2 ~7-8 oz layers)

My products are sometimes 2 or 3 layers of 4 oz thick leather, and I need the machine to handle that, so it could go anywhere from a 4 oz. single layer to 3 4 oz layers on a single item.

Id also like reverse so as to be able to backstitch

Any suggestions?

[Colt W Knight]

I do everything you mention on my Consew 206 RB. Will sew up to 3/8" leather and uses up to 138 thread. Some say it can be adjusted to sew 207 thread. But the 3200 will sew much heavier leather with much larger thread. The cylinder arm design on the 3200 would be nice for sewing bags and things. You will want to check with Bob Kovar at Toledo to see if the 3200 will work with thinner leather like your wallets.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Colt W Knight

[steveleather]

HI, Im in a similar position and spent months debating models, actually way longer. I was looking at the cowboys and think they look great but realized it might be too heavy duty for stuff thats not multiple layers of heavy veg tan. I talked to many people and eventually came across the ARTISAN 335 B WHICH CAN SEW UP TO 24 OZ OF leather. still havent recieved it yet so i cant telly you any info based on personal experience but it seems perfect to me, can sew light to thick leather, just not crazy thick. there are other similar makes/models to this but this is what i chose. good luck

[robb01]

I do everything you mention on my Consew 206 RB. Will sew up to 3/8" leather and uses up to 138 thread. Some say it can be adjusted to sew 207 thread. But the 3200 will sew much heavier leather with much larger thread. The cylinder arm design on the 3200 would be nice for sewing bags and things. You will want to check with Bob Kovar at Toledo to see if the 3200 will work with thinner leather like your wallets.

Is the cobra class 18 a clone of the Consew? Looking at that machine as well. I've seen a few 206's on craigslist, but I'd like to buy new for warranty and some support if i have issues getting it set up

[Art]

Since you are new to the Sewing Machine game, I will recommend a new machine. The CowBoy 227R pretty much fills your requirements. I recommend a cylinder arm because frankly, those of us who have bought a flat bed eventually end up kicking ourselves in the butt for not getting the cylinder arm. The work you do now is light to medium duty (based on thickness) and the top end is medium to just about heavy duty. Giving for overlap on each end, the medium duty will cover most to all of it. The link I gave is for Toledo Industrial as you didn't put a reasonable location in your profile. Just make sure your dealer does leather machines, there are special setups for leather machines and special extras that make using the machine easier.

Art

[Colt W Knight]

If I were buying new, I would buy a cylinder arm. If you could get a good deal on a used Consew 206, I wouldn't hesitate.

Like Art said, I think the Cowboy 227R which is the equivalent of the Artisan 335 B mentioned earlier, would be ideal for what you mention

I think the Cobra class 18 is the equivalent of the Consew 206. Looks like the cobra comes with a servo and speed reducer installed ( which gives you more torque to punch through leather).

Edited March 20, 2016 by Colt W Knight

[robb01]

Since you are new to the Sewing Machine game, I will recommend a new machine. The CowBoy 227R pretty much fills your requirements. I recommend a cylinder arm because frankly, those of us who have bought a flat bed eventually end up kicking ourselves in the butt for not getting the cylinder arm. The work you do now is light to medium duty (based on thickness) and the top end is medium to just about heavy duty. Giving for overlap on each end, the medium duty will cover most to all of it. The link I gave is for Toledo Industrial as you didn't put a reasonable location in your profile. Just make sure your dealer does leather machines, there are special setups for leather machines and special extras that make using the machine easier.

Art

Thank you, that is one that I hadn't looked at. What is the main difference between the 227r and the class 18? They seem similar to me, but again I'm very much a novice at sewing machines. What thread size would be most like 1.0mm tiger thread that I currently use?

[Wizcrafts]

Turek;

You mentioned an interest in a CB3200 and also said you sometimes need to sew as little as 4 ounces (1/16"). The 3200 is a heavy duty harness machine and is not recommended for sewing that thinness of leather or thread size 69 that matches 4 oz leather.

Unless you want to sew gun holsters, knife sheathes, saddlery, harness and heavy cases, this machine is just not gentle enough the sew thin material with thin thread.

Once you move into the sewing aspect of leather work, more machines may be needed. Your first one should be a cylinder arm type. You can either buy a table top attachment, or have one made, or build one yourself. The CB227R is a very good choice and has reverse. It maxes out with #138 thread, which has 22 pounds tensile strength. I have sewn a lot of leather goods up to 1/4 inch thick with #138 thread (top and bottom).

FYI: The CB3200, 3500, 4500 and 5500, like the Adler 205 and 969 series are all heavy duty harness and holster machines. They come into their own starting with #138 thread and going up. You would normally use #138 thread when sewing about 7 to 8 ounces, as in lined rifle slings and guitar straps. They have very large feed dogs that have huge slots for giant needles that can move off center in all directions. I have watched my CB4500 literally make a meal out of 2-3 ounce garment leather, as it got pushed down into the hole in the feed dog..OTOH, my standard upholstery grade walking foot machine handled it without any difficulty.

As for your Tiger thread, at 1mm, the closest bonded nylon size is #554, which none of the 441 types can handle. To machine sew with #554 requires a Campbell Randall Lockstitch machine, or equivalent. The needle size would be the equivalent of a #30. The 441 type machines max out with a #27 needle.

The Class 18 is a Cobra flat bed walking foot machine. It is an excellent choice if you don't need a cylinder arm.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Wizcrafts

[Colt W Knight]

Thank you, that is one that I hadn't looked at. What is the main difference between the 227r and the class 18? They seem similar to me, but again I'm very much a novice at sewing machines. What thread size would be most like 1.0mm tiger thread that I currently use?

Essentially, they are similar machines except the 18 is flatbed and the 227 is a cylinder arm. A cylinder arm is as handy as a pocket on a shirt. You can reach things on bags, clothes and such that you can't with a flatbed.

[robb01]

Which (flatbed vs cylinder arm) would be better for flat items (wallets, notebook covers, ect) which make up most of my products? I assumed the flatbed would be easier to use, but if I can put a flatbed on the cylinder arm, and remove it for times when I didn't need it that seems to be the better route to go

[brmax]

I truly think you will be happier initially getting a cylinder arm machine, which one is up in the air.

The pieces you have mentioned are to me perfect for that work area, and not really a big need for add on table at first.

I've seen several of the vendors here in the top banners having guides to bolt or fasten at the work area of the cylinder.

These seem great, also some custom companies make slides for different width belts that enable you to just fly with production, thats just cool stuff to use.

No matter though the setup to use leather is a good investment reason to have a talk more with vendors that post here and that's a pretty good start and they are great to talk with. Just mention you have been doing some study on the site here with the rest of us and looking for a pro that can help with a best direction. Some vendors been here for a long long time and work with us daily as well as big production factories, and probably enjoy us here more! : )

good day there

Floyd

[Huntersilver]

I would have to second the new Artisan 335 B, I visited Artisan on Saturday and was all set to purchase the Toro 3200. Jerry, asked me what I woudd be

sewing, I said mostly handbags and belts. Anywhere from 2oz to 14oz, using 69 to 138 thread. He thought the Toro 3200 was way over kill for my purpose.

As I brought samples to sew, the 335B worked very smoothly with my light weights as well as two 7oz belt leather sewen toghther. I truyly got a machine that really

fit my needs, the operation was nice and smooth, and I saved about $500 from the Toro. I bought the roller edge guide, which worked great, it also folds up away from

the work area when not needed. I bought the U table, so when I need the cylinder arm I am able to sew handbags. Also got the attachable work table when I want

to sew liners. All in all a really great machine for my needs, and I really appreciate Jerry taking the time in finding the right machine for my needs, as well as coming

in on his day off to meet with me. Will post an update at a later date.

[oltoot]

If at all possible don't get just enough. A little more than you think you need will save you from being stuck where you are and not able to push on a little. And new will be worth it in terms of avoiding someone else's wear and tear.