puckers in waxed canvas stitching

[georgeandgracie]

Why do I get these awful puckers when I sew waxed canvas with my Consew 206RB-3? The company that makes the fabric says it is a tension issue but I cannot resolve it. If I loosen the top thread any more there will be loops on the underside. If I loosen the screw on the bobbin the screw falls out.

Other people's work doesn't seem to show this puckering.

[JMWendt]

Have you tried ironing it down?

[georgeandgracie]

Yes. That helps somewhat, temporarily. When the item (tool rolls, in my case) are used, though, the puckering tends to return.

[gottaknow]

You are stretching the fabric as it's being sewn, then it's snapping back like a rubber band. Loosen the pressure on the foot and make sure when there's no fabric in the machine your presser feet are firmly contacting the feed dogs. This will allow you to loosen the foot presser enough to get it to lay flat. Also, unless I'm setting a machine for binding, I use a needle feed machine. Waxed canvas should lay flat as a pancake, even when sewing on the bias. It's not your thread tension. 

 

Regards, Eric 

[georgeandgracie]

Aha!!

So that is why the advice from Fairfield to loosen the tension did nothing but cause additional problems.

Apparently this means that I need to replace my Consew 206RB with something else. Yikes! What might some appropriate needle feed machines be? I think there is an auction coming up that may have some industrial machines, maybe old Singers.

[gottaknow]

An old Singer 211G157 is a needle feed machine with a reverse. It will sew your canvas beautiful. Parts are readily available and the machine will cost significantly less than a walking foot unit. You can sew an awful lot of stuff without needing a walking foot. On our TinCloth (heavy waxed canvas) we use the new Juki 9010A series. great machine if you want to spend the money. The 211 I mentioned should be around $400-$600 with a table and motor. I still use them in the factory.

Regards, Eric

[shoepatcher]

Eric,

check your model number.  A Singer 211G 155 and 211G156 are compound feed machines.  I thought the 211G157 was compound feed as well with reverse? I could be wrong.

glenn

[georgeandgracie]

Eric and Glenn - is "compound feed" another term for "walking foot"? I thought it meant something about the foot and the feed dog moving together. The way Glenn asks makes me wonder if I misunderstood the terminology. He does imply that "needle feed" and "compound feed" are mutually exclusive.

Edited April 28, 2016 by georgeandgracie
To clarify my question.

[georgeandgracie]

As I study my sewing with Eric's comments in mind, it seems to me that the problem is not stretching but rather the opposite. Puckering occurs when I am sewing parallel to the lengthwise grain of the fabric (parallel to the selvedge). In waxed canvas, the fabric just doesn't stretch much if at all in that direction. If you look at the attached photo you can see that the stitched seam is shorter than the original fabric. Stitching has drawn-up the fabric.

[gottaknow]

5 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

Eric,

check your model number.  A Singer 211G 155 and 211G156 are compound feed machines.  I thought the 211G157 was compound feed as well with reverse? I could be wrong.

glenn

Nope. 211G157 is a needle feed with reverse. No walking foot. I have 6 of them. 

Regards, Eric

[gottaknow]

26 minutes ago, georgeandgracie said:

As I study my sewing with Eric's comments in mind, it seems to me that the problem is not stretching but rather the opposite. Puckering occurs when I am sewing parallel to the lengthwise grain of the fabric (parallel to the selvedge). In waxed canvas, the fabric just doesn't stretch much if at all in that direction. If you look at the attached photo you can see that the stitched seam is shorter than the original fabric. Stitching has drawn-up the fabric.

If you sew that same seam on a machine without a walking foot, you'll get it to lay flat. Whether it's stretching or puckering, a standard needle feed will do a much nicer job for you. If you do a lot of this work, it would be worth the relatively minor investment when compared to a walking foot machine. You'll also get less fabric marking. As a work around, you can always loosen as much pressure as you can and pull the seam from behind while sewing.

 

Regards, Eric

[CowboyBob]

A 206RB-3 isn't a real old machine but there could be some wear in the upper feed that can cause a problem you want the needle   in the material before the inside foot comes down..But the material being shorter on top would lead me to think there is some wear front to back on the inside foot causing the plies to shift.Also what type of thread are you using?Nylon can cause puckers in canvas since it stretches like a rubber band & after it's sewn will relax & pucker.Polyester is supposed t have less stretch & so does cotton.

 

[georgeandgracie]

I'm using polyester, size 92.

[georgeandgracie]

I am now officially on the lookout for a Singer 211G157. Meanwhile, I will loosen the pressure and try the pulling technique. Eric, thanks a bunch!

[gottaknow]

1 hour ago, georgeandgracie said:

I am now officially on the lookout for a Singer 211G157. Meanwhile, I will loosen the pressure and try the pulling technique. Eric, thanks a bunch!

A Singer 211W151 is the same machine without reverse. You can still backtack without a reverse, just takes some getting used to. These are common on the used market. Head, table, clutch motor should be no more than $350 or so. Do try pulling as you sew on your Consew in the mean time and see what happens. 

 

Regards, Eric 

[georgeandgracie]

Do these Singers run like the proverbial bat out of hell, the way the Consew 206RB did before the servo?

[mikesc]

Yes ;) ..a small pulley on the motor shaft and a speed reducer are your friend..as is a servo motor in combination with the foregoing items..

[gottaknow]

If it comes with a clutch motor, then yes.  I'm a big fan of clutch motors myself, but I've been using them for 36 years. A servo would work fine, I wouldn't think you need or want a speed reducer.

Regards, Eric

[mikesc]

Whoops ..Yes Eric..( re speed reducer )I forgot that it was not for leatherwork ..mea culpa :)

[georgeandgracie]

In the lower right of this picture (an auction preview) is some sort of industrial sewing machine. I don't suppose this is a Singer 211W151?

[gottaknow]

No, sorry. A 211 would be a grey color.

Regards, Eric

[georgeandgracie]

Thanks for saving me the all-day trip to the auction!

I have not yet found a Singer 211G157 for sale. 211W151 models are out there, on Ebay and Craigslist, for $350 to $400 for a head only, plus shipping plus, of course, the servo motor.

Are 111 models, as opposed to 211, similar enough to be worth considering?

[Kohlrausch]

1 hour ago, georgeandgracie said:

Thanks for saving me the all-day trip to the auction!

I have not yet found a Singer 211G157 for sale. 211W151 models are out there, on Ebay and Craigslist, for $350 to $400 for a head only, plus shipping plus, of course, the servo motor.

Are 111 models, as opposed to 211, similar enough to be worth considering?

Hi,

 

a Pfaff 141 would also be needle feed with reverse. Pfaff 142 is the double needle version. Here's the manual https://www.libble.de/pfaff-142/p/743951/ 

Dunno how often they come up on your side of the Atlantic Ocean.

 

Greets

Ralf C.

[georgeandgracie]

Thank you, Ralf. That information gives me some more options.

[Ole South]

Consew 28 or Singer 78-3 are needle feed designed to do canvas (read Model A curtains and tops) and pop up from time to time. No reverse but poor mans spin and sew or lift foot and needle and draw back 2 stitches works well with upholstery. Why not just swap out the head and drive belt as you need it on your current table?

http://denver.craigslist.org/for/5587457264.html - Consew 18

Looks like there's a double needle singer for sale in Co Springs too ($500)

Edited May 21, 2016 by Ole South