A question for the the pros

[bikermutt07]

Howdy, my name is Matt. I live in the Shreveport area and have taken up leather crafting. At 42 years young, and quickly approaching some serious arthritis issues, I have no intention or desire to make a career out of a fun hobby. 

 I have made a holster, a few sheaths, and am currently working on a tote bag for my wife.

It has been fun and therapeutic. We have a three year old son who likes to come in and tap on the stamps while daddy's working.

So, here's my question: if I can learn enough about leather to get him started (as he gets older, and shows interest) could he scratch out a decent living later?

I know there's lots of variables in this question, but basically, are y'all able to make a decent living?

Thanks for any replies.

[JMWendt]

Hobby only.  I wouldn't wish this as a career on anyone.

Have your son go into software.  Not soft wear.

[bikermutt07]

Thanks, guys. We do have a horse track here and the gentleman who has the local store stays really busy with saddles. Ethan may have an opportunity as an apprentice someday. I was just thinking ahead. I'm a carpenter by trade and will definitely be teaching him about that. I (as any father) just want him to have options. 

 

[ConradPark]

Don't forget that a career as an artisan working with leather, regardless of discipline, have more options than being self employed or running your own business (and the success of this, has more to do with knowing business in general than leathercraft/work discipline itself). What I have noticed on this forum over the years, is that there are a profound lack of active members that belongs to the group of professional leather artisans or business owners of established brands that offers leather goods, so throwing out this kind of question here is a bit like a wasted effort. 

What I'm trying to say is that all the established leathergoodsbrands in the world, regardless if it's luxury brands or more hipster or sport or whatever, are made by someone. The manufacturer world is yet to have robots doing everything, and far from popular belief, not all leatherworkers are from Asia. Brands like Hermes have a couple of thousand leather workers working for them in France only. Mulberry's own manufacture plant here in England have around 300 leather workers, and so on and so on, and these people have real wages, pensions, holiday pay and so forth, like as in any other proper profession. 

To be a leatherworker/artisan and make a living out of it is no more difficult than anything else. The trick is rather to know how to find work, where to get the foot in (apprenticeship or a college/university education) or to try to be a business owner (and again, this has very little to do with what commodity one chooses).

Anyway, in the end of the day I'm sure your child will find his own interest and direction as an adult, regardless, and who knows, maybe he wants to be a dancer or painter instead!

[JMWendt]

I'm sure no matter what you 'd like him to do, he'll do what he wants anyway.  Good to keep him well founded and give him a big base from which to make life decisions, but in the end, our children are their own persons.  I hope he loves leatherworking as much as I do, in any case.

[bikermutt07]

Well his mom is an art teacher and he already has lots of fun painting. We aren't the pressure type parents. 

It's all just really a pipe dream/ daydream at this point. 

I was just curious about options and all.

Being the proprietor of 2 failed small business attempts I do know it's not all about hard work and the product.

[R SFraser Sr]

I think another question to ask is - what will the demand be for leather work twenty or so years from now,when he establishes his business?

And if there is still at last a moderate demand two decades later - would that demand increase or decrease over the ensuing 30 years?

Edited May 16, 2016 by R SFraser Sr

[bikermutt07]

Good question. The demand could be much lower with developments in plastics and resins. Or it could be in high demand after our current civilization folds. It's always a crap shoot.

[RockyAussie]

Hi Bikermutt,

For what it is worth I would encourage your son to get interested and adept at 3d drawing. No matter how many robots there are taking over jobs you still have to have people create art and that is to be able to conceptualize something and find the best ways to create it. The bloke who has heaps of robots will still prefer to pay for some artists works than any robots work. Your carpentry and your wife's art skills will assist him greatly in time and with arthritis coming on perhaps your self as well.I use 3d a lot these days, to make moulds for casting leather with the 3d printer and jewellery designs to receive inlaid crocodile pieces and supports for zippered purses and so on. Think about printing the outer part mold with all of the pattern on and pressing it all in one go. I know a lot here would be horrified at the thought but when a basket weave punch was first made was it then considered that it would not be right to do the whole stamping in one go in the future? The future can be bright and I believe the concept as a whole and quality and affordability of the end product is what is most important. As for marketing I do very little as I find that mostly they find you if your worth finding.

Most people don't know me and that is my preference but I can proudly say that I contract manufacture crocodile leather goods for some of the biggest brand names in the world and have done so for years. I wish you and your family better luck in your future. If you are interested to see any pictures let me know.

Regards Brian F 

 

[bikermutt07]

Thanks, Brian. So, you're using a 3d printer to make molds from? That is pretty interesting. How are you applying the mold to leather? Are you using a press or maybe a roller?

[RockyAussie]

Pics worth a thousand words they say. Mostly as I am a contract manufacturer I need to produce things in larger numbers like 20 or a hundred at a time and I need to have therefor a large number of molds. The advantage once the drawing is done and converted to an stl file I can set the printer to print the mold or molds while I can continue to work on. To line up zips straight in a product when you put them is a lot easier if you have a mold inside with a center line mark to follow. The lipstick pouch and the key purse and coin purse mold are done in 2 clip apart sections so the zip can be folded over onto 1 lining then uncliped and then folded over the other side lining. I don't do much casting type stuff but the advantage here is 1 the multiple molds all the same and 2 the ease of making the outer cover section to press down over the leather. Imagine having your logo pressed in at the same time as the rest of the casting.(no good on croc skin unfortunatly). I will try and get a couple of mold pics for you tommorow or at least this weekend. Look up shapeways over there they can print steel brass and all sorts and you can find the pricing there as well. http://www.shapeways.com/how-shapeways-works?li=nav.

Or yeah to answer your question I use a press for some things and a roller for some others.

Regards Brian F

[bikermutt07]

Those are some nifty looking products. I like how the lipstick case has a mirror.

[bob21804]

Matt, very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it. Of course, being a newbie myself, I probably shouldn't even chime in here, but I want to say I almost like the idea of our current civilization falling apart. Sometimes I wish I was born 150 years ago when skills like the people here have were more highly valued. (but I'd be dead now. lol) I'm in my mid 50's and currently look at leatherwork as being a rewarding hobby that can pay for itself with a few extra dollars left over for a lot of time invested. When I make things for friends, and charge them a reasonable price, I tell them honestly I'm not even making 1/2 of minimum wage.  Even with improved skills, being able to produce items faster and the following an artisan can develop, a person would likely do this more for the love of the craft than the money. But that's not such a bad thing. And yes, those are some beautiful items above.

[Boriqua]

I do everything by hand .. dont have a clicker to cut out shapes or a host of other tools and equipment that would make things more expedient. Like a sewing machine .. If I pushed hard I might be able to make 1200.00 and change a month. That is not "living on wages" and its not guaranteed. However I am one of those crazy people who went to school and studied fine arts when everyone said what are you going to do with that. Now I turned it into a nice little career before I dropped out and never had illusions of being shown at the MET but before I launched my career I worked with some great artists on many public projects ... most of them my instructors who I had formed relationships with. The trick for them was diversifying. So one instructor in particular grossed around 100,000 a year. He won bids for public art at schools and city projects, so art for pay, he made his own art work and showed regularly and sold pieces and he taught classes at the School of Visual arts during the week and taught an adult education class at a community college one weekend day. So I think if someone was willing to mix it up they could find a way to make leather work a viable alternative. I think for anyone coming up it might be about embracing new styles, color schemes and all things hip that I am no longer privy to.

In the end .. take it from a grandpa ... if you want him to take up leather work then he will most assuredly want to be a mason. 

[bikermutt07]

Both, great posts, Bob and Bori. Bob, I'm kinda itching for it to all come unravelled. But it may stagger on a few more decades, who knows?

[bikermutt07]

There's a man here in Shreveport that only does these really big leather medallions. I ran into him when I was first starting leather for the first time two years ago. He told me he manufacturers them for some company that sells them in the back of magazines. I think he contracts exclusively with them. I thought that was neat. He had placed an ad in the thrifty nickel selling some tools. I was digging around the other day and realized that he had sold me a bk mulesfoot really cheap. Cool.

[RockyAussie]

Here as promised are some of 3d molds I said I would take today. If you look carefully you will see a recess hole to accommodate the small internal zip slide and the older mold done in layered Masonite. Near to impossible to make without a 3d printer as you see the newer model comes with extra support legs to aid in keeping the whole purse supported when attaching the outer zip to the internal. For the little crown zip purse you see the advantage of printing molds that be uncliped and even with finger recess to make removal easier. To the left at the top you should see a outer piece for pressing in all the edges at once on the zip when pushed downward. The crown is what we call the center piece on the back of the crocodiles neck/head. I guess a lot of my fun is developing machinery and tools that make the making easier and more profitable. Just found this link which is also interesting. http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/66260-3d-printing-and-leather/#comment-430777

 

[bikermutt07]

That's really neat, Brian. Thanks for sharing.

[JLSleather]

I know quite a few people who make between $50k - $70k per year doing basically nothing. They have "jobs", but they do nothing.  So, any 'craft' you want to do which requires any skill at all should pay AT LEAST that, PLUS pay for the time you'll spend on marketing, advertising, answering messages of one form or another, selling, and tax prep -- all of which is done FOR those people who do nothing.  Oh, don't forget health insurance and vacation pay

Leather and leather tools can be pricey, so in the end it seems the only ones making any money (profit margin) is those who make relatively  low cost, quick-out-the-door stuff that I wouldn't want if it was free.  "Carnival" crap... bought to be fun for the moment and then pitched out.  As a carpenter, I'm sure you've seen the ones I'm talking about....

 

[bikermutt07]

Oh yes, I certainly have. I'm not sure I would ever buy a home younger than myself.

[LumpenDoodle2]

Teaching your son leathercraft will at the very least, get him to appreciate craftwork, and the difference between throwaway tat, and something that someone has put their heart into.   Maybe a carear at the end of it, but probibly self-employed, rather than an employee.

I think the biggest thing to me about this leather working, is to try to not get stuck in one market or product (unless it's paying you to do so).    You have to be open to new ideas and methods.  Like RockyAussie, I have a 3D printer, but I'm just starting to work out how it can make life easier for me.

anyhoo, a good grounding in art and craft, and you can do (almost) anything.

[Boriqua]

Oh I should have added one other thing .. even if it doesn’t become his primary career path it can certainly help. I went back to School the second time after getting married and having a child. I worked, but families are expensive and I didn’t get any aid or take any loans. Between work and school assignments I made leather goods for people and one day walked in with some stuff to Manhattan Saddlery, http://manhattansaddlery.com/  and asked to speak to the manager. They started carrying my stuff regularly so I had a full time market and they provided me with custom orders they would get from their clients. It was enough to pay for classes and supplies so no money had to come out of my house budget. That is one of my bags in their window and one of many sets of saddle bags I did for them.

When I decided to step out of the rat race a few years back I took it up again full time and while I dont earn oodles of money it pays for a couple of bills, medical insurance. beer and ammo. Cant complain .. taking up leather was not only enjoyable all these years but has provided that little extra income to get around some rough spots.

 

[JLSleather]

On 5/21/2016 at 11:48 AM, JLSleather said:

Leather and leather tools can be pricey, so in the end it seems the only ones making any money (profit margin) is those who make relatively  low cost, quick-out-the-door stuff that I wouldn't want if it was free.  "Carnival" crap... bought to be fun for the moment and then pitched out.  As a carpenter, I'm sure you've seen the ones I'm talking about....

 

To clarify my post, when I say those "making any money (profit margin)", I  am talking about those making money BEYOND the $60k (give or take) that you can make being the guy on the assembly line with no responsibility at all after 5;00 pm (or whatever time you "punch out")

It's fairly simple to supplement your income making leather 'stuff'.  But in terms of making a living at it, then I only "count" the part that benefits ABOVE AND BEYOND that simple "job" where all the admin stuff is someone else's problem.

 

[bikermutt07]

Thanks for the clarification. Now where can I land one of those 60k assembly line jobs?

[JLSleather]

Around here, that would be Nestle Purina Pet Care and Georgia Pacific Gypsum   One of the young girls my wife "adopted" started over there last year.  Taking home $1k+ per week, which aint bad for a kid who aint 20 yet.  Plus vacation, medical insurance, pension plan, flex spending account, .... and so on.  She clocks in before 7a, clocks out at 4p, and whatever happens before 7a tomorrow is not her concern.

Only job might be better than that is welfare recipient.  Go fishin' for a month, and when you get back there's a check there to cover all your bills!  Oh, you cut yourself cleaning fish?  No worry,... the medical is paid for you too (do I sound a bit jealous?)