Pfaff 545 Thread size max

[Jeff Claridy]

I recently bought a Pfaff 545 to sew veg tanned leather journals, wallets, bags, and more. Had problems with hook timing because of old screws buggered slots on shaft. I cut deeper slots into screws allowing me to tighten down properly. Hook timing solved I think. Now I am trying to use size 138 thread top and in bobbin sews fine going forward but if I try to lock stitch creates jam on bobbin side of leather. My question is to big thread in bobbin or timing off by small adjustment. I really would like to use 138 on both sides for finished look. I would also like to use 207 size thread need to know if that is possible. I have learned more about sewing machines in the last month than I thought possible but still a newbie. I need to sew with no issues, so far I spend more time tinkering with machine than sewing. I would appreciate all the help you can offer.  

Thanks Jeff

[brmax]

Jeff its possible the series H3 and the H4 have a bit different specifications though I would think thread of 138 can be used with the possibility of 207 on top just have to give it a shot.

I understand some other Pfaff's like the 442, 1442 had available std, med, and heavy hook assembly options.

With the 545 the H4 is using the 190 system needle and the H3 using the 134 system I believe it is.

I'm curious if when locking the stitch is this at the start or finish or anytime the reverse lever is fully pressed.

some others that are more familiar will chime in

Good day there

Floyd

Edited May 24, 2016 by brmax

[suzelle]

Jeff, I have the Pfaff 545 high lift machine. As Floyd mentioned, it does take the 190 system needle, unique for this machine. My machine did not sew when I got it and I had the worn out screws around the bobbin case area and basket. Really I should replace those as they are so difficult to use when I have to take the bobbin area apart, which is rare. It is now a nice running machine. Had fixed the things I could fix myself and then sent it to a qualified mechanic to fine tune it because it hadn't been for a few years when I got it.

About the reverse, I'm not answering your question exactly but I will tell you what I know about my machine. When stitching in reverse, it does not stitch right into the same holes as it did when it was going forward. I'm not sure why, I wish it did. At some point, I am going to ask my mechanic if he can adjust it so that it will stitch into the same holes when I go in reverse.

One thing about the 545 I've noticed  more than any other machine I have: I do have to be sure to hang onto the tails when I begin sewing, or it does jam up rather easily. Back tacking at the end of a piece is no problem, it's when I start out that I need to be extra careful.

 

[CowboyBob]

Thread jamming underneath is usually a upper thread tension issue,you might look in between the tension discs for lint build-up & then try to tighten the top tension more than where it is now.It should use 138 w/o much problem other than you need to hold on the needle thread when you start as Suzelle mentioned.

[brmax]

Something that further got my attention here is the fact that the 545 bobbin case cap, In my opinion is very close looking to the cap in my 1341 Juki.  This interest is for replacement options in several reasons but anyway I had measured the thread slot on a factory issued cap and the figure is .018"max on mine going under the spring. After thread exits spring area the small notch on top has a clearance of .035 on this same cap, though this is just a guide notch.

All this measure is way out there but as I seen the options for the different hooks available to some pfaff models having this style cap well this got my interest as all machine stuff.

Good luck with all your adjustments Jeff and thanks for postin

Floyd

 

[Jeff Claridy]

I need to check needle style, and look into bobbin sizes.I thought there was very little clearance for hooked thread as it travels around the bobbin. My machine jams when going in reverse every time.Thank you Floyd, Suzelle, and CowboyBob 

Please keep the knowledge flowing I need all the help you send my way.

[brmax]

It sounds like your picking it up perfect, there is hardly any clearance in that needle to hook spec so that sounds normal.

If your notch/scarf of the needle is at center of the hook point as it sounds your on track. So if removing needle to see the very small number on the needle for clarifications get a good magnifier. One of the dealers like Bob above can supply replacement needles for leather or fabric work, in a size you can use now with out a big change. So enjoy a while, and in the meantime you can use several thread sizes but it may be good to initially select one that will work for the majority of your items and your happy with the look, also searching around here can be a great opportunity I found but could require some popcorn.

Good day there

Floyd

[Jeff Claridy]

I checked the needles I was using and they are 134 and 135. My Pfaff 545 is a H4 so I ordered the 190 needles now waiting for the shipment to arrive. Thought they would arrive today but holiday weekend!  I will follow up after I set the timing and needle bar to the correct height. Wait! That sentence almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about. Ha Ha. Hopefully I will be reporting good news. The problem, I will be out of town a couple of weeks and will not be able to time the machine before I leave.Thanks all.

[Wizcrafts]

22 hours ago, Jeff Claridy said:

I checked the needles I was using and they are 134 and 135.

Do you mean system 134-35? That is another size peculiar to some Pfaff machines.

[brmax]

Jeff I should have been a bit more clear, these needles " systems" as Wiz kindly is mentioning can sometimes fit in other machines.

In that they are different lengths and needle bar adjustment would have to be made in order to be in time, sorry !

They perform better in a production standpoint for some product they need or just the location of the machines mfg. design.

Floyd

[Jeff Claridy]

yes system 134 135. I looked up the length of 134 and the length of a 190 system needle. The 190 being longer length so will need to set needle bar height when I change to the 190 system needle to correct the timing.

[Wizcrafts]

Jeff;

Needles don't just vary in length. They can also have different upper barrel diameters and barrel lengths, before tapering down to the designated needle size. Your machine may or may not accept or properly seat the system 190 needles in the mounting hole.

[Jeff Claridy]

I will check them out once they arrive. The manual actually calls for the 190 system on the H4, so unless someone has changed parts on my machine I'm expecting them to work.

 

System 135x17 is generally used in walking foot (compound feed) industrial sewing machines. It is also known as 3355 and DPx17. 
Please note that 135x17 refers to the system, or type of needle; size (diameter) is denoted by the suffix. 
For example, 135x17-21 is the smallest, or thinnest size we offer in this brand; 135x17-24 is the largest, or thickest size. 
The eye of the needle increases with the thickness to allow for sewing heavier threads. Needles listed here are standard sharp point only.
135X17     This is a very common Needle SYSTEM used by:
ADLER ARTISAN BROTHER CONSEW DURKOPP JUKI MITSUBISHI
NAKAJIMA PFAFF SEIKO SINGER SIRUBA TAIKO TOYOTA

They are also seen as numbers DPX17   SY3355
 

190R      
Please note that 190R refers to the system, or type of needle; size (diameter) is denoted by the suffix. 
For example, 190R-21 is the smallest, or thinnest size we offer in this brand; 190R-24 is the largest, or thickest size. 
The eye of the needle increases with the thickness to allow for sewing heavier threads.

Length, butt to eye: 44.5mm. Shank diameter: 2.0mm.

Needles listed here are standard sharp point only.  
This Needle SYSTEM is used in many PFAFF Industrial Sewing MachineMODELS:
145       146       195       335       540       543       545       546       1240       1245       1246       1545       3306
for   Walking Foot,  Double Needle,  and many other PFAFF INDUSTRIAL Sewing Machines

 

[Wizcrafts]

I can buy both system 135x(16|17) and 190 in sizes 16 through 25. The sizes 16 and 18 are best for sewing #69 bonded thread into about 4 - 5 ozs of leather, or 3/32" of vinyl or cloth. #19 and 20 needles are best fo #92 bonded thread, into about 6-8 ozs leather, or up to 1/8" of material. A #22 needle is for sewing #138 bonded thread into vinyl or cloth and a #23 for sewing it into leather.

[Jeanneau403]

Hello, I have purchased a 545 model C,  it appears most folks have asked the question how thick of material can be sewn, my question is kind of the opposite.  I have purchased the machine for doing boat canvas (sunbrella) work.  I have been sewing with a pfaff 138 with Tenera thread and #14 needles.  

With the Tenera thread the smaller needle diameter works better.  It appears a number #14 needle is smaller than recommended for the model c 545, is this a thread tension spring issue?  Thoughts?

I am asking on this forum as this forum has the most information on the practice use of the 545.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

 

[Pintodeluxe]

You'd probably break a lot of needles with that small of a needle on a 545 (if it even fits).

I have the H4 version which takes 190 system needles.  I use #19 or #20 for 92 thread.  I think the 545 will sew 138 fine, but I'm not sure about anything thicker.  

[Jeanneau403]

The machine I purchased is also a H4.  Manual for the 545 lists needle sizes based on models A, B C etc, maximum thread size is not the issue.  The Gortex Tenera thread is similar to v-92 thread.  They recommend (Tenera)  a smaller needle #14, #16 when using the thread..  Pfaff manual says model “c” minimum needle size is #18.  Is this based on thread tensioner, needle bar, what??  Model B minimum needle size is listed as a #12.  

pfaff 138 sews with the Tenera and sunbrella well, but purchased the 545 for the walking foot, not sure if I have purchased a machine that won’t work with the needle & thread recommendations and the use of the specialty Tenera thread for prolonged outdoor UV exposure.

 

 

[Pintodeluxe]

That's interesting about the minimum needle with different variants of the 545.  I wasn't aware the minimum needle size was different from one 545 to the next.  

The difference might be something simple like the size of the needle hole in the feed dog.  If it doesn't pucker your material, and sews well, it's probably fine.  Maybe try a 16 or 18 needle and see if you can find a good middle ground.  

[Constabulary]

1 hour ago, Pintodeluxe said:

That's interesting about the minimum needle with different variants of the 545.  I wasn't aware the minimum needle size was different from one 545 to the next.  

The difference might be something simple like the size of the needle hole in the feed dog.  If it doesn't pucker your material, and sews well, it's probably fine.  Maybe try a 16 or 18 needle and see if you can find a good middle ground.  

 

You are right, it´s that simple and as so often in life - size matters. The size of the needle hole in the feed dog or needle plate and the needle to hook distance and the gap between needle plate notch and the small tongue on the bobbin case (or positioning finger at the Pfaff 138) have an influence on the thread thickness you can use. This is often overlooked and people think they would need a different machine or different subclass to run thicker thread. You can achieve a lot by adjusting the hook saddle. Moving it a bit to the right makes the gap between NP notch and bobbin case tongue a bit larger and therefore thicker thread can slip through. When machines have a horizontal hook (like Pfaff 138) they usually have a positioning finger that holds the hook in position and the finger can be adjusted back and forth to allow a thicker or thinner thread. This is trial and error and there is no rule of thumb of how thick the max thread can be. It depends on the original setting and of course every adjustment has its limits. But most important is the needle hole. If the hole is too small for the needle further adjustments make no sense.

[acowboy]

If I remember right if your machine sets different in forward and reverse, try turning the lever over inside the reverse handle

easy fix.

also my 545 stays loaded with 207 top and bottom

[AllSeamsPossible]

On 12/3/2019 at 4:00 PM, Jeanneau403 said:

Hello, I have purchased a 545 model C,  it appears most folks have asked the question how thick of material can be sewn, my question is kind of the opposite.  I have purchased the machine for doing boat canvas (sunbrella) work.  I have been sewing with a pfaff 138 with Tenera thread and #14 needles.  

With the Tenera thread the smaller needle diameter works better.  It appears a number #14 needle is smaller than recommended for the model c 545, is this a thread tension spring issue?  Thoughts?

I am asking on this forum as this forum has the most information on the practice use of the 545.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

 

 hi I know this is probably a really old post hopefully it's not had a few questions and since you said you are working with boat upholstery / canvas umbrella work I myself am doing the same thing and I'm quite new at it. So it may sound stupid but you said that you use its narrow thread is that the lifetime thread that you were using and the size needle I'm not really sure about needle sizes and what you can use exactly with which type of thread should I be using a #14 like you were saying.? Is there anybody on this that can tell me if exactly what type of needle I should be able to use with the Tanera lifetime thread?

Thank you

Heather

[Leebroox]

On 12/8/2019 at 6:06 PM, acowboy said:

If I remember right if your machine sets different in forward and reverse, try turning the lever over inside the reverse handle

easy fix.

also my 545 stays loaded with 207 top and bottom

Acowboy,

What do I need to do to my 545-H4 to get it to accept the 207 thread?  I have gone back and forth with all of the tension settings and I am still not getting the bottom/underside stitches to cinch inwards.  The bottom thread just rides along the underside and never locks into the leather. I don't have any issues with a 92 size thread but I want a much bigger thread if possible. I know this old but I am new to the sewing machine world so hopefully this makes it to your in box.  Thanks.

Cheers,

Leland 

[CowboyBob]

6 hours ago, Leebroox said:

Acowboy,

What do I need to do to my 545-H4 to get it to accept the 207 thread?  I have gone back and forth with all of the tension settings and I am still not getting the bottom/underside stitches to cinch inwards.  The bottom thread just rides along the underside and never locks into the leather. I don't have any issues with a 92 size thread but I want a much bigger thread if possible. I know this old but I am new to the sewing machine world so hopefully this makes it to your in box.  Thanks.

Cheers,

Leland 

207 is a large stiff thread ,you need alot of tension the the needle & very little on the bobbin to get it to pull up,alot of people have better  luck using 207 on top & 138 in the bobbin,the 138 can pull up in the stitch easier since it's smaller.

[kgg]

8 hours ago, Leebroox said:

What do I need to do to my 545-H4 to get it to accept the 207 thread?

Also what size of needle are you using as you will probably need a #24 or #25 needle depending on how thick the leather is. 

kgg

Edited November 26, 2022 by kgg

[Leebroox]

On 11/26/2022 at 4:15 AM, CowboyBob said:

207 is a large stiff thread ,you need alot of tension the the needle & very little on the bobbin to get it to pull up,alot of people have better  luck using 207 on top & 138 in the bobbin,the 138 can pull up in the stitch easier since it's smaller.

CowboyBob, Thanks.  Yep I had 207 in both and Max tension up top and absolute minimum on the bobbin and I was still getting the railroad tracks on the underside. At the very least you have confirmed that I was doing everything right.  I will switch to 138 in the bobbin and see what that looks like.  Appreciate the help.

On 11/26/2022 at 6:00 AM, kgg said:

Also what size of needle are you using as you will probably need a #24 or #25 needle depending on how thick the leather is. 

kgg

Absolutely. I am using a #24 going through two pieces of 3.5oz vegtan.  Albeit very slowly to prevent the needle from breaking.  I have found that is as thick as I can go without something binding up and breaking the thread or needle.  Appreciate the advice because that needle selection was a shot in the dark and when I installed it, it looked a little big to me.  I will probably switch to #21 or #19 and 138 or 92 thread, if I cannot get the 207 to take like I want.  Thanks again.