looking for 135x16 LR #19,20,21

[tibee]

Hi,

I have a techsew 2750 and Im looking to get some 135x16 LR to fit it in size #19, 20 , 21 . Does anyone have a source for those.. preferably in North America, Ideally in Toronto.

Thanks!

[Uwe]

Surely Ron at Techsew  in Montreal ( LW member TechSew Ron) can conjure up some leather needles for the machines he sells. 

[daveottawa]

Of course he can! I get all my needles and thread from techsew for my machine. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by daveottawa

[JLSleather]

These folks got 'em up to size 19 (and they're FAST).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Groz-Beckert-135X16LR-Leather-Needles-For-Sailrite-Ultrafeed-Consew-CP206R-/401049598968?var=&hash=item5d606b3bf8:m:mFIJehXZgfs1biItZLGQ1jg

 

[daveottawa]

The specs for the 2750 on the Techsew site say the machine uses 135x17, sizes18-24. There's plenty of them on Amazon.ca too.

Edited June 7, 2016 by daveottawa

[gottaknow]

25 minutes ago, daveottawa said:

The specs for the 2750 on the Techsew site say the machine uses 135x17, sizes18-24. There's plenty of them on Amazon.ca too.

135x17 is a round point for wooven goods, not leather. I prefer Groz Beckert needles.

Regards, Eric 

[daveottawa]

Thanks Gottaknow.  Where would I find that kind of needle spec information?

[Gump]

You're gonna have to go stateside, as Techsew has a limited selection, and will only sell you boxes of 100 needles. I bought 2 boxes because they were on sale, and they are not top quality. If you do buy from Techsew, get the more expensive needles and save some headaches, ie thread shearing and breakage.

[gottaknow]

8 hours ago, daveottawa said:

Thanks Gottaknow.  Where would I find that kind of needle spec information?

For information, http://www.grozbeckert.com 

GB are high quality and consistent. I also use Schmetz when I have to. 

Regards, Eric 

[gottaknow]

13 hours ago, JLSleather said:

These folks got 'em up to size 19 (and they're FAST).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Groz-Beckert-135X16LR-Leather-Needles-For-Sailrite-Ultrafeed-Consew-CP206R-/401049598968?var=&hash=item5d606b3bf8:m:mFIJehXZgfs1biItZLGQ1jg

 

I can't believe how much these small resellers charge for their needles. I pay $13.50 per 100. Yes, I buy high volume, but still even at my price, my supplier makes a profit. Huge markup.

Regards, Eric

[JLSleather]

Yep, everywhere any more.  Hermann Oak leather is about $8 / ft from them . and that's the "A" grade.  Go somewhere else, and pay $11 and up for B or even C grade.

I've never had much respect for "retailers".. which is of course another way of saying 'we don't make anything, we just want to get paid for what somebody else makes".

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by JLSleather

[Constabulary]

Check with College Sewing:

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/?s=135x16

Sometimes its worth checking their needle offerers

 

[mikesc]

Eric..for "unbelievable" try these prices..this is the "trade price" I pay ( in France ) for a box of 100 of the same needles..
http://www.mazet-locam.fr/79-aiguilles/81-boite-de-100-aiguilles/259-aiguille-134-lr/fiche-produit-detaillee.html
€28.00 plus 20% VAT..= $39.75 per box of 100 needles

[gottaknow]

16 minutes ago, mikesc said:

Eric..for "unbelievable" try these prices..this is the "trade price" I pay ( in France ) for a box of 100 of the same needles..
http://www.mazet-locam.fr/79-aiguilles/81-boite-de-100-aiguilles/259-aiguille-134-lr/fiche-produit-detaillee.html
€28.00 plus 20% VAT..= $39.75 per box of 100 needles

Yikes! My needle budget would go through the roof with that price!

Regards, Eric

[Techsew Ron]

20 hours ago, tibee said:

Hi,

I have a techsew 2750 and Im looking to get some 135x16 LR to fit it in size #19, 20 , 21 . Does anyone have a source for those.. preferably in North America, Ideally in Toronto.

Thanks!

We have Organ 135x16DIA available in 18, 20, 23, 24. They will fit your Techsew 2750. We're not in Toronto but can ship next day or 2-3 day. Obviously different cost from generic needles but we're happy to offer both options!

Ron

[JLSleather]

Maybe I read that wrong, but I thought he specifically wanted LR -point needles. Yes? No?

 

[tibee]

Hey, Thanks so much for all the input guys... I'm looking for 135x16 LR in small quantities though (10/20 needles).. https://www.college-sewing.co.uk has what I'm looking for and it turns out campbell randall will have some in about 10 days so I might just wait for that depending on shipping price and all that.

While were on the topic, I also recently got a hold of a pfaff 491 and I dont know the needle system it uses. Anyone know? 

Thanks!

[Techsew Ron]

49 minutes ago, tibee said:

While were on the topic, I also recently got a hold of a pfaff 491 and I dont know the needle system it uses. Anyone know? 

Thanks!

The 491 uses system 134-15. you can download a manual here:

http://www.bootmaker.com/Pfaff491.pdf

[Uwe]

Regarding needle pricing from the manufacturer's perspective, I had an interesting exchange with a Groz Beckert representative in Atlanta. I had asked about some rare needle system, and he said something along the lines of "Yep, we're the only manufacturer of that needle system worldwide. But we don't charge more for it or gouge people. (pauses to think for moment)  In fact we haven't raised needle prices in 25 years - we're crazy!"

I guess the manufacturer holds or improves their bottom line by lowering cost of manufacturing, economies of scale, and automation.

What happens to pricing after the product leaves the manufacturer greatly depends on the distribution network and how many layers or relay stations there are. Hypothetical price is irrelevant if there's no product to sell or buy. For example, toilet paper is super cheap in price controlled Venezuela - they just don't have any to actually sell. The store shelves are just empty.

Even in a free market, if there's no money to be made on the distribution end, nobody will bother to distribute the product, which means you can't buy the product.

When I consider how hard it is to actually make a good needle (try making one yourself if you don't believe it's hard to do), I'm thinking $0.30 per needle in small quantities is rather a bargain.

[gottaknow]

26 minutes ago, Uwe said:

Regarding needle pricing from the manufacturer's perspective, I had an interesting exchange with a Groz Beckert representative in Atlanta. I had asked about some rare needle system, and he said something along the lines of "Yep, we're the only manufacturer of that needle system worldwide. But we don't charge more for it or gouge people. (pauses to think for moment)  In fact we haven't raised needle prices in 25 years - we're crazy!"

I guess the manufacturer holds or improves their bottom line by lowering cost of manufacturing, economies of scale, and automation.

What happens to pricing after the product leaves the manufacturer greatly depends on the distribution network and how many layers or relay stations there are. Hypothetical price is irrelevant if there's no product to sell or buy. For example, toilet paper is super cheap in price controlled Venezuela - they just don't have any to actually sell. The store shelves are just empty.

Even in a free market, if there's no money to be made on the distribution end, nobody will bother to distribute the product, which means you can't buy the product.

When I consider how hard it is to actually make a good needle (try making one yourself if you don't believe it's hard to do), I'm thinking $0.30 per needle in small quantities is rather a bargain.

Groz Beckert needle prices change all the time. I think the guy you spoke with wasn't informed very well. My basic overlock needles are UY154's to fit my 40 or so Union Special 39500's. The price per hundred 6 years ago was about $22/100. I bought some last week for $51.90/100. That's a higher increase than many other needle classes, but they all change. I usually purchase needles 1000 at a time to get a better price. We make the operators change needles on our wool twice a day, on the waxed canvas, 3-4 times a day.

Regards, Eric

[mikesc]

Lot of French distributors sign up non French manufacturers to "exclusive distribution deals"..selling in the French market requires being extremely proficient in the French language..and it is a hard language to learn ( especially if one is coming from a language that doesn't attribute "masculine" and "feminine" properties to all words arbitrarily ) , so to get some sales in France that they otherwise would not have got, the manufacturers sign the "sole distributor "deals..Then the distributor just buys a start up minimum order stock and it is like a licence to print money, prices are multiplied  by 2 or 3 at each step of the chain, so if the national distributor has secondary distributors ( who frequently keep no actual stock ) and they sell to retailers, we get ludicrous prices..or we import the stuff ourselves from neighbouring countries, or direct from the manufacturer..

Two cases in point..

I bought a semi-domestic / artisanal machine, Kachiran 4048D* a couple of years ago, manufacturers price around $200.00 ( and they will sell you just one ) ..UK retail price ( rebadged as "Silver" ) is equivalent to $400.00..German retail price ( re-badged as Gritzner ) equivalent to around $500.00..The UK and German distributors buy from the manufacturer Karchiran in Iran..they use English to communicate..The French "distributor" buys their "Silver" machines from the UK ( with an "exclusive distribution deal " ) they retail them themselves, and they supply other French retailers..at an equivalent price of just over $1000.00 and some of their retail partners charge $1200.00..The French individuals who could read English bought theirs from the UK for a few years, then the UK distributor under pressure from the French distributor threatened to shut off the UK retailers that were supplying France if they continued to sell to France, the French individuals now buy from French retailers who are next to the border with Germany, and who go over the border to buy from the German distributor each time they get an order from France, they retail their machines at around $800.00 in France..a bobbin case for the machine goes for around $150.00 in France, or around $25.00 from Holland via the web..plastic bobbins for it are €1.00 each in France..and €3.00 for 25 from Holland..

* The machine is an exact clone of the Pfaff select 4.0..

Example #2 A local professional sail maker I know bought a long arm Durkopp Adler machine with Efka variostop and "jog" type system full pneumatics etc..From the Durkopp distributor in France, cost him €15,000.00 ( around $20K ) .. he then saw whilst on a visit ,the identical machine , same set up, in Holland six months later at a Durkopp distributor there, price €8000.00, ( around $11,000.00 ) ! he loves the machine, but swears he will never buy from the French distributor again, their after sales service is shocking , he has to call in a freelance machine mechanic because the French distributor either doesn't  show when called out, or shows and then spends hours on the thing and still can't get it to run correctly, but charges full hourly rate ( €150.00 per hour .) with mileage and expenses anyway..Machine is two years old now, next machine he buys , I'll go with him to Holland and interpret between him and the Dutch ( who of course speak English, but not French )..I didn't ask him ( I was at his place, his sail loft is  about 5 kms from me, two days ago ) how much he pays for his needles

 

There is "reasonable profit", and there is "outright price gouging"..

Edited June 9, 2016 by mikesc

[gottaknow]

I should have never looked at what leather workers are having to pay for needles. The more sources I looked at, the more irritated I became. I won't make that mistake again.:)

Regards, Eric

[Uwe]

It's time to launch "Eric's Needle Emporium LLC" to support formerly gouged leathercrafters.

[gottaknow]

1 hour ago, Uwe said:

It's time to launch "Eric's Needle Emporium LLC" to support formerly gouged leathercrafters.

That thought actually crossed my mind. A reasonable mark-up on small quantities is to be expected. I don't consider 300%-500% mark-up reasonable. 

Regards, Eric

[Hockeymender]

2 minutes ago, gottaknow said:

That thought actually crossed my mind. A reasonable mark-up on small quantities is to be expected. I don't consider 300%-500% mark-up reasonable. 

Regards, Eric

If you ever start one, sign me up, would buy my needles from you. I like to support the "little guys" rather than the big suppliers.