Work surfaces

[Bitta]

I have a heavy wood work bench set up and I cut leather on a cutting mat, punch into a poly board with a ball peen hammer, tool/stamp on a granite slab with a poly maul or rawhide mallet and set hardware on 3/4" plate steel with a ball peen hammer. That's just the way I was taught.  I've recently who use other various work surface combinations and configurations.  I was taught that the granite could break with the right strike in the wrong place and dings and pits in the granite from setting hardware on it could effect the outcome of your tooling, so it needed to be reserved solely for tooling.  I use hammers on punches because by the time they are mushrooming on the striking end, they are probably getting dull enough to replace anyway and for setting hardware to get a solid strike.  I cringed the other day watching a guy try to put a 1/2 dull punch through belt leather into a 1/4" rubber mat  while making divots in his $100 Stohlman poly maul all the while.  He had his way and it was his tool. 

I know we all have our own ways of doing things, but was looking for some outside opinions as I'm teaching 101 classes at our local makerspace.   I don't want to be overly stringent in what I tell them, as I'm not the only leatherworking instructor, but I dont want them trashing tools, wasting hardware with needlessly bad sets, or breaking our slabs.

What kind of work surface set ups do y'all use for tooling, puching and setting hardware and what are your thoughts on using hammers vs. mallets with some tools.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Bitta
clarity

[brmax]

I have used hammers on chisels, drift punches, center punches, during my past 30plus year career as a construction and ag mechanic. So this in meant to be a kind recommendation; unless you have a safe place for the grinding to re-dress the edges and ends of these metals," with sparks flying" another type of striking tool may be best.

A long ago simple rule I had was no wood work/saw dust in a mechanic shop, now semi retired the rule is no sparks in the canvas leather shop.

I remember the first serious scolding "though small it stuck" just starting to use a nail set for furniture to use as a center punch, ( bow head slow eye close) whoops! oooo k

I don't think this really addressed the issue but i'm waiting on the coffee to finish and thought it bolstered a better reason.

good day

Floyd

[zuludog]

By chance, soon after I became interested in leatherwork I met a retired cobbler in a pub - what a fortunate meeting! His opinion was that "them green mats" were as good as anything he'd ever used for cutting leather on

For skiving I use a glass oven door off an old cooker

I use a stitching chisel with an ordinary plastic kitchen chopping board underneath the leather

I don't do any stamping or tooling, but you might want to look at these hammers. They have various heads, some models are interchangeable, with hide, copper, nylon, and so on.

http://www.thorhammer.com

Their distributor in USA is http://www.angloamericantools.com

Speaking of hammers, here's a chance to learn a bit of British slang

Birmingham is one of the main engineering cities of Britain, but in the local dialect this is corrupted, and Birmingham is pronounced 'brummajem'

Thus a hammer, especially the ball pein engineer's type is known as a 'brummajem screwdriver'.

Edited September 23, 2016 by zuludog

[JLSleather]

Yer right about the granite... took a good chunk out of both the granite and the punch driving a slot punch.. just not payin attention and whopped it too hard 

I don't hit steel tools with steel hammers.  

Some folks whose judgement I would trust insist on dead blow mallets (I personally used them only in teh machine shop).

A plate of aluminum or brass over your steel plate or over an anvil will manage to keep the rock in shape and the punch sharp.

I use an 11 oz rawhide mallet.  Same one I use for tooling.  If the punch is sharp, really don't need a BIG swing down on it.

 

 

[brmax]

Zuludog, omg! I can see my wallet getting thinner now, why yuuuu

Really, Thanks for the link, I seen already some great tools in the ad link for over here.

On another note the mats or available surfaces for cutting and punching I could use some more information on myself, I have a small black plastic type and it works but not big enough for cutting with rotary.

have a good day

Floyd

Edited September 23, 2016 by northmount
as requested by brmax

[Dwight]

The mat on my table is available at Joann's Fabric, . . . get the coupon from their website, . . . can get up to half off, . . . I love mine.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Bitta]

I have a couple of the large cutting mats by Olfa and Fiskars.  You can find them in fabric/craft stores and even Wal-Mart and Amazon  They are kinda pricey, but they are great if you cut with rotary cutters or knives versus using shears.  they kinda self-heal, but will wear out eventually over time, but you will definitely get your money's worth out of them.  Just be very careful using adhesives on them, because of the texture of the surface, adhesives REALLY like them and don't wanna come off very easily.  They don't like heat, especially irons and heat guns, and will get all warpy and curl up.   My big one is 36" x 48"...they market the big ones to quilters.  The measurements are really handy as well.

For punches, the poly cutting boards...maybe 1/2" thick or so work great.  Just like they protect your good knife blades, they also protect your punches.  Don't worry when the punch drives into the plastic a little...that's what it's supposed to do.   They have a good long lifespan as well even when they get a little ugly.  

Thanks for the slang lesson!   That link is great...will check out a dead blow hammer and see if I like the feel.  I like the replaceable end pieces - I wouldn't sweat dinging them up knowing I can swap them out.  I kinda baby my nice maul,  Thanks for that!

 

[Harry Marinakis]

On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 9:04 AM, Bitta said:

What kind of work surface set ups do y'all use for tooling, punching and setting hardware and what are your thoughts on using hammers vs. mallets with some tools.

1. I made a heavy laminated oak workbench that I cover with carpeting tiles.

2. I do leather, wood and metal work on my workbench, but I vacuum often and change the tiles as needed ($2 each a the local discount store). My workshop stays clean, and I thoroughly clean up in-between jobs.

3. For leather punching I use a ball-peen hammer and a pine board backing. Rubber mats aren't strong enough to stand up to abuse, and the bounce means I have to hit the punch multiple times. A soft pine board backing means One Hit = One Clean Hole. I have a large set of cheap punches all the way up to 1 inch. When they get dull I sharpen them, or toss them if they're too small to sharpen. I do have several really nice punches, because there are some jobs that can't be done well with cheap tools, but that's not often the case.

4. For leather cutting, I use an X-Acto knife for precise cuts and large metal shears for all other cuts. For very small jobs I use a cutting board, although the cutting board is now shredded and I'm going back to cutting on soft pine boards. For large jobs I cut on the carpet tiles on my workbench. I go through X-Acto blades like crazy, and I don't care. They had better be dangerously sharp or I toss them and install a new blade. I buy X-Acto blades by the hundreds ($12 for 100 blades).

5. For leather tooling I use the backside of an 18" x 24" granite tombstone that is 4 inches thick. I have dozens of hammers including a poly mallet. I only use the poly mallet for tooling, haven't found much use for it otherwise. The granite is not used for anything else but tooling.

6. I do a lot of riveting, etc., on a 70-pound anvil that sits on my workbench.

7. Mallets versus hammers? Using a poly or rawhide mallet is pointless except when you're tooling.

8. Here is my workbench & shop, and a recent project (sword scabbard)

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by Harry Marinakis

[plinkercases]

Harry,

Sure a solid looking bench for sure and nice scabbard and belt there.

You use metal head hammer on your punches and setting tools (not tooling tools as you have said you use a polly mallet)? Doesn't that bur up the ends of you tools or is that all figured in your used it, then replace it approach?

[Harry Marinakis]

Cheap tools: use, abuse, toss, replace

So what if it mushrooms a bit? Grind down the mushroom if it bothers you.

The poly/rawhide mallet is so wimpy that it's use is very limited

[brmax]

Harry that's a nice workbench, for sure!  I'm needing to fix one up and that helps the plan.

Hey Dwight did that top mat come like a sheet or is it rolled, I really don't have a clue there?

Floyd

[plinkercases]

3 hours ago, Harry Marinakis said:

Cheap tools: use, abuse, toss, replace

So what if it mushrooms a bit? Grind down the mushroom if it bothers you.

The poly/rawhide mallet is so wimpy that it's use is very limited

Ok. Just asking (not commenting)  since I was always taught not to go metal on metal but if it work for you then great. I have a 2 lb polly maul and mallet and they seem to work for me but I assume with what you are punching through and with you need the kaboom you get.

And brmx good question about that measuring matt. Curios too.

[Roq]

The mats come rolled when shipped. Let it lay in the sun on a flat surface before you use it.

[Harry Marinakis]

14 hours ago, plinkercases said:

Ok. Just asking (not commenting)  since I was always taught not to go metal on metal but if it work for you then great.

Personal preference, but there's nothing wrong with metal on metal. You might get some mushrooming on the hammered end of a tool, but - so what? IMHO complaining about mushrooming is like complaining that your knives get dull when you use them to cut leather.

I think the concern is either tool longevity or ruining the hardness/temper of the tool if you try to grind it, neither of which is really a problem.I've been hammering away for years on cheap rivet setter from Tandy - the top is mushrooming, but that has not affected its function or my ability to work with it. And it's cheap enough that in 20 years when it's really bad then I'll splurge $10 to buy a new one.

As far as the hardness & temper is concerned - we are stamping cased leather, not steel, so it really doesn't matter. You can make a stamp from mild steel (which can't be hardened to any significant degree) and it ill work fine for decades. If you are that concerned about ruing the hardness & temper by grinding off the mushroom, then suspend the tool in cold water, grind slowly so that it doesn't get hot, and frequently dip the entire tool in the cold water to cool it off. But I've never done any grinding on mushrooms because it makes no difference in function.

IMHO using a heavy 8 oz to 24 oz steel hammer to get one-hit results is worth it.

Tooling is another matter, I like to use a lightweight poly hammer because I'm working gently and it's not as tiring.

 

Below: Forging a leather stamp from mild steel

Edited September 25, 2016 by Harry Marinakis

[plinkercases]

I would love to see some of the tools you forge yourself.

[TinkerTailor]

1 hour ago, Harry Marinakis said:

Personal preference, but there's nothing wrong with metal on metal. You might get some mushrooming on the hammered end of a tool, but - so what? IMHO complaining about mushrooming is like complaining that your knives get dull when you use them to cut leather.

I think the concern is either tool longevity or ruining the hardness/temper of the tool if you try to grind it, neither of which is really a problem.I've been hammering away for years on cheap rivet setter from Tandy - the top is mushrooming, but that has not affected its function or my ability to work with it. And it's cheap enough that in 20 years when it's really bad then I'll splurge $10 to buy a new one.

As far as the hardness & temper is concerned - we are stamping cased leather, not steel, so it really doesn't matter. You can make a stamp from mild steel (which can't be hardened to any significant degree) and it ill work fine for decades. If you are that concerned about ruing the hardness & temper by grinding off the mushroom, then suspend the tool in cold water, grind slowly so that it doesn't get hot, and frequently dip the entire tool in the cold water to cool it off. But I've never done any grinding on mushrooms because it makes no difference in function.

IMHO using a heavy 8 oz to 24 oz steel hammer to get one-hit results is worth it.

Tooling is another matter, I like to use a lightweight poly hammer because I'm working gently and it's not as tiring.

 

Below: Forging a leather stamp from mild steel

Using too small of a hammer with too much force reduces accuracy, increases the tenancy to strike crooked and increasing the likelihood of mushrooming. In addition, the additional blows due to the lower weight will increase this effect. One square hit with a big hammer will do much less damage than several hits with a hammer that's too light. I use a 2.5lb rock drilling hammer with my setters and punches. One big whaap...Have for years, leather, wood, steel. Never had one break and very little mushrooming on any of them, especially if there is a chamfer on the top of the tool.

[JimBonita]

Good tip I found on Youtube.  I use a glass cutting board for gluing, edge kote, and sloppy stuff.  A single edge razor scraper and some windex will make it slick enough to skive on.

[plinkercases]

Excellent tip thanks.

[impulse]

By far the best surface for punches is lead. I have melted down scrap lead to form a 8" x 4" x 1" thick rectangle. this is firm enough to get a sharp punch thru thick leather with one hit, yet soft enough to protect the tool. It works much better than a poly cutting board. When one side is marked up I just flip it over. This is great for hole punches, slot punches, strap end punches etc. About every 2-3 months I refresh the surfaces with another melt down, using a blow torch. Caution! Do not use your kitchen stove to heat lead! I have a butane camp stove which I use in the open air only.

"Them green mats" (self-healing) are also my choice for cutting, and granite slab for tooling.

Cheers, Lois

[LumpenDoodle2]

I used to have green cutting mats the full length of my work/cutting table, until I started using a round knife.   I then replaced the mats with a 150cm x 75cm x4mm sheet of HDPE.  Best thing I've done, as the round knife doesn't 'grab' anymore, and even my Stanley knife glides easier.

I also have a small solid table with a 7" deep, by 18" diameter round of wood on top for using punches.    The end on grain protects the punches perfectly.

My hubby made a second table for me, upon which I have my little granite slab for stamping.   It eould be nice to have a larger slab, but...........  Think 'Tiny Homes'  and you have an idea of my workshop.