What are your thoughts on separating the Arm

[Evo160K]

from the cylinder/base on the Singer 45K25 that we're restoring?  We're considering applying as near an original japan finish as we can which involves baking........we believe.  The full head is too large to fit in the oven, and we're hesitant to ship it out for baking, thus the question.  Btw, the three bolts holding the two parts together are incredibly tight.  Did they use thread lockers in the late 1930's early 40's?.  Thanks for your input.

[CowboyBob]

I believe sometimes some things are better left alone,we have split machines apart many times,it isn't easy to get the screws out(use an impact driver),also once you get them out you also have to pry & work the casting back & forth to get the (2) big taper pins out that they put in there.

Edited October 17, 2016 by CowboyBob

[trash treasure]

If you can't take it apart, and you can't bake it, you could take it to an auto body shop, and have them spray it with some black 2 part polyurethane enamel .

Not authentic japanning, but It would probably look pretty good, and the finish would certainly be hard enough.

[TinkerTailor]

So I hope you are not going to cook food in the oven after baking the paint....I would buy an old one just for this purpose.... Or get 2 old crappy ovens, take the doors off, put them on dollies, and push them up face to face. Voila, double powered double sized oven.......

As to separating the machine, If you can avoid it, do so. Whatever you do, put away the hammers......... because old cast is brittle.Cast iron machines are usually finished together because the finish hides the seam. It is way easier to sand bondo that cast iron.....The nice smooth finish on old milling machines is frequently on top of a thick coat of bondo sanded smooth..... I am guessing singer did the same, though I haven't stripped one or split it in half.

With the time and attention you intend on putting into this finish, I would finish it as one piece. If you gotta build a bigger oven from craigslist crap, do it. All that work will be wasted if the machine join looks like crap because you did it after and touched it up...

Edited October 17, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[Yetibelle]

I really appreciate your enthusiasm for detail.  I'm sure with enough effort you can get the machine apart.  Get some micro lube in there and it will eventually saturate and loosen up.  Now back to your process, how do you plan on baking the paint on?  This sounds fascinating.  I think that paint has come along way since the machine was made 100 years ago.  You can now really get close to the same finish with over the counter enamel paint and some wet sanding.  Plus since you already stripped it down it should go on really smooth now. 

Just for fun here is the video of how it was done. You can see one of the machines that screws the top/bottom together at 14:50.     The "japanning" starts about 15:10.  The whole video is great. 

http://movingimage.nls.uk/film/1592

 

 

[Yetibelle]

Here is the Singer 7-33 I restored.  I just cleaned it up, and then mixed 50/50 paint thinner to paint and applied 3 coats I believe.  I just used Rust-Oleum high gloss black enamel and a good brush. Had I stripped it all the way down and smoothed it out it would have looked brand new.  I think I will try that on the next one.  Now I want the gold leaf the logo back on.  But I need a Singer stencil.

Some before and after pics.

 

 

 

[Evo160K]

Thank you good people for your thoughts and advise.  Being new to restoring anything significant, I'm banking heavily on your guidance with this machine.  I have so much respect and admiration for these old Singers and appreciation for the genius, quality and engineering that went into their making, I need to do my best to make a good result.

@ Cowboy Bob        You've convinced me.  If you, a respected professional, recommend against it, you can bet I'm not going to take the chance of splitting the machine.  Thank you.

 

@ Yetibelle               Fine looking machine you have there, major improvement.  Did the 50/50 blend eliminate the brush marks?  Why did you choose brush over spray?  Thanks for that amazing video; I'm wondering if those machines went up to an oven before they came back down and were taken off the conveyer.  I've read the Ford model T japanning conveyor did take the parts through an oven on an upper floor.  I'm thinking for the japanning to reach the required hardness in hours rather than in weeks, baking was required.  About decals, Keeler Sales in Florida has a broad range of Singer decals.    http://www.keelersales.com/

@ TinkerTailor          If I can't find a reasonably priced, used, oven that will work, I'll have to bite the bullet and take it to someone that has one.  I wanted to avoid that, but I may not have a choice.  Thanks for your support.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Evo160K

[CowboyBob]

You'd be surprised how hot a machine can get w/a heatlamp under it &  some tin foil over it .

[CowboyBob]

Around 15 min into this movie you'll see how they attached the castings & also the how they painted them.

http://movingimage.nls.uk/film/1592

[Evo160K]

14 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

You'd be surprised how hot a machine can get w/a heatlamp under it &  some tin foil over it .

 

Would you think it would get up to 400 degrees F?  That's my understanding of the temperature required to cure the japanning.  I'm also told it will cure naturally and with out heat over 30 days.  Would you know?
 

14 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

Around 15 min into this movie you'll see how they attached the castings & also the how they painted them.

http://movingimage.nls.uk/film/1592

Thank you Bob.  Those machines must have applied one hell of a torque to those bolts.  Really enjoy that video.

[TinkerTailor]

an easy bake oven got to 350 with a 100 watt light bulb.

[MADMAX22]

Great video Bob, safety now a days would be losing there mind lol. 

As far as the temp cure question this was kind of  interesting http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/ColdCureJapanning.html

There are lots of infos on the internet for this stuff. 

[CowboyBob]

6 hours ago, Evo160K said:

Any heat would be better than no heat,I know for a fact it'll get pretty hot.I guess you could put a cooking thermometer in the top to guage it.

Would you think it would get up to 400 degrees F?  That's my understanding of the temperature required to cure the japanning.  I'm also told it will cure naturally and with out heat over 30 days.  Would you know?
 

Thank you Bob.  Those machines must have applied one hell of a torque to those bolts.  Really enjoy that video.

 

[Evo160K]

Bob, sure is easy enough to whip up some tinfoil and a heat lamp.  I have an infra red heat gun, so we'll see what  temp the heat lamp reaches.
 

@ Madmaxx22  thanks for that link.  I've been reading as many of those japanning articles as I can find.  There's some really interesting information out there.