Cheap wf or industrial ?

[Dominicff]

I know all about what would be the best sewing machine for leather, but financialy I have to choose between these 2 ; I wanna know what your choice would be ! 

 A cheap 400$ portable sewing machine with walking foot 

Or 

A used but still good industrial sewing machine set straight Stitch 

I sew tote bags usually 4mm thick

 

Thank you!! 

 

[TinkerTailor]

The fact is, there is going to be NO best machine at that budget. All will have significant drawbacks, and you will need to deal with these. Things like feeding issues, marking issues, punching power issues or thread weight limitations. If I were you I would hand stitch a few things, sell them right now to all your relatives and friends for them to give as gifts during the holidays and sock away the money. Look to spend more like 1000-1500 when all is said and done. Unless you get lucky on the used market any machine you get now for 400 bucks will either break or make you want to break it.

[Darren Brosowski]

If the walking foot is a domestic with an attachment then it is $400 down the toilet!

[MADMAX22]

What machines exactly are you looking at? 

$400 could get you something that will sew that thickness if you are patient and search out deals. I have picked up a 211g155 for $200 and a 111w155 for $225. The 111 only needed cleaning and a new needle, the 211 needed a new hook and adjustment. Both will sew 4mm leather all day long for some time. Also got a 153w for $300 but havnt had the time to check it out yet. 

Now all of these are limited to 138 thread so that would be a limitation that may affect you. 

Where are you located? 

[Northmount]

IP address places the OP in Quebec 

Since this is a world wide forum, it would be really nice if people would include their location in their profile.  The would get better info with searches for equipment, etc.  Would know what their dollar is.

Tom

[Dave4]

Dom - For starters, stay optimistic!  

Coupla months ago, I drove 4 hrs to Bend to buy a 31-15 for $80.  It was in an old solid wood clutch table.  It was cheap because the machine had no paint.  I cleaned it and shot it with duplicolor black auto paint and cleared it with shellac over a Keeler decal set ($11) installed wrong so nobody could try to claim it was original.  I sanded the table, stained it with leftover pecan, routered out the dual belt window, shot leftover black oil-base on the frame, and shot the table top with shellac. Then I talked to Bob. He spewed $1 million dollars worth of Singer 31 info in 12 minutes, then I could never get ahold of him again.  I figured he went to New Zealand.  I put a $110 servo on the table, bought a $19 small motor pulley on ebay, and built my own bigger handwheel pulley.  I bought a $20 shuttle race assy (which you need because they wear out, which i learned from Bob), and a $20 set of (3) wheel feet with a single-row dog and plate, and also a $8 teflon foot.  I got some 69 and 92 BN thread at a thrift shop for $2 a spool.  So I got a total of $280 in this thing, and it is fine!  Wife digs it.  Can you blame her?  It looks great, and sews even better.  Check out the cig marks on the right.  There were actually twice that many, but I sanded half away.  I left the remainder on purpose to preserve a little character, and also in case i decide to start smoking. 

Here's what we learned: if you run 69 thread in this machine, it sews like butter.  If you tension 92 properly, it sews but it grumbles.  If you properly tension 138 in it, it sounds awful.  We only tried that once.  

Several weeks ago, I talked to Gregg about used Cornsews.  He spewed just over $600,000 worth of 206 info in about 15 minutes.  I sent him an email a day later to clarify exactly what I would get for the $800 price for a refurbed 206 head only.  No response.  I called, got the answering machine, figured he went to Guam.  I drove to Bend, bought a 206RB3 in a table converted to servo (FS) for $500.  Should be done cleaning it up by Tuesday.    

I needed cornsew feet, so I emailed Ohio, got no response, checked with my man ngosew in Salem, got R&L zipper, regular smooth, left toe smooth, inside raised toe, 3 sizes of right-side guide feet, a bobbin case and 10 bobbins for $93.  Good to go.     

Last week I called around looking for 135x16 needles in LL (NTW) or S (NCR) or DIA tips because i didn't want to be confined to just using TRI or RTW or NW points, because the S and LL points make straighter stitches than just about any other tip, where the S or DIA is a really open stitch, and the LL is really tight and closed.  I even called Ohio to make inquiries, and Bob answered the phone!  He said he'd look into it and get back to me, but I never heard anything back, assumed he went off to the Northwest Territories.  I called Abe at Diamond, he was brisk but polite.  I got his girl on the phone, she was the best.  I bought 600 needles from them (a very small order for them, and I'm glad they tolerated my small order), so i now have DIA and LL points for leather in 16, 18, 22, 23.  BTW, if you are still reading this and you have always wondered what LL or DIA points will do, but you didn't want to drop $45 to get 100 of one needle, mebbe you should send me a PM.  I have more than I need of LL18, LL22, LL23, DIA16, DIA18, DIA23, all Organ 135x16, new in unopened 10-wrappers.  Mebbe I'd sell a set of six 10-packs, one of each needle type listed above, 60 needles total, $35 delivered conus.  Mebbe I'd do this as many as 4 times, not in any other configuration than what i described just now, unless you want all 120 for $70, or 240 for $140.  KISS, etc.  

I digress.  

Dominic, if your material is only two layers 8mm total, either one of the machines mentioned above will easily do everything you need, and they can be found for reasonable prices.  The 31 is just a fast oversized bottom-feed SS machine with a nice motor and some style points.    

There are other non-compound feed non-walking foot industrials out there that will do your job.  

If your piece has a "hump" anywhere in it, where you have to sew multiple layers and the bottom layer has a stitch line or edge that creates a "hump", it seems to me that a needle feed is the minimum requirement to consistently sew over that hump without skipping or making an irregular stitch, but I'm fairly new and you can get better advice from others here.  

My message for you: stay optimistic and patient.  Good deals come along, even for people like me who live in counties where cattle outnumber humans by 3x.

[Dominicff]

Well today i found an industrial Pfaff eco 45 for 550$ cad with walking foot. After what you guys told me I think I would put the extra money to start with the right machine instead of buying something cheap and regret it. Found out that anyway I will eventually buy a real good machine for what im doing. Better save my money for this.

[Dominicff]

16 hours ago, TinkerTailor said:

The fact is, there is going to be NO best machine at that budget. All will have significant drawbacks, and you will need to deal with these. Things like feeding issues, marking issues, punching power issues or thread weight limitations. If I were you I would hand stitch a few things, sell them right now to all your relatives and friends for them to give as gifts during the holidays and sock away the money. Look to spend more like 1000-1500 when all is said and done. Unless you get lucky on the used market any machine you get now for 400 bucks will either break or make you want to break it.

That is exactly what i was thinking about. Having starting leathercrafting a few months ago, all the people around me have already pass an order to something they want me to do for them ! 

[Dominicff]

11 hours ago, northmount said:

IP address places the OP in Quebec 

Since this is a world wide forum, it would be really nice if people would include their location in their profile.  The would get better info with searches for equipment, etc.  Would know what their dollar is.

Tom

Just updates my account you're right

[TinkerTailor]

34 minutes ago, Dominicff said:

Just updates my account you're right

If you are in Quebec, Give Techsew a callhttp://www.techsew.com/machinery/reconditioned-industrial-sewing-machines.html, they buy and sell used machines, I am sure they can get you hooked up and they can support it. Ronnie probably has a 211 or two stashed somewhere... Plus, If you look at their site they sell tandy tools for cheaper than the membership prices at tandy They also have some osbourne tools and decent thread.........

Simard sewing also sells used leather machines in quebec, see here: http://simards.com/usedsewing.html

To the others who are quoting machines, keep in mind that the budget of  400 canuckistani pesos is only 300 yankee bucks right now...........

Edited November 5, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[dikman]

Pfaff are nice machines, but be aware parts can be expensive.

[Dave4]

dikman makes an important point.

When I was shopping for a compound feed walking foot flatbed machine, i narrowed the field with the following considerations:

Singer 111w155 - the original design, no reverse, parts are fairly easy to find and inexpensive.

Singer 211 - newer version of 111, has reverse, some parts are shared, others are hard to find.  

Seiko STH-8BLD into the current generation 3, and Consew 206RB through generation 4 with a TH serial number - these are basically all the same machine with only minor differences, they share many parts which are all easy to find and inexpensive.   These are japanese machines, very well made.  Today's Consews and perhaps even the Seiko are now made in Chinese factories, but there has been no huge slide in quality according to most dealers.  I also looked at Consew 225/226 and 255 style machines, which are capable and have available and affordable parts, but I chose to stay with a 206 style machine.  

Juki LU 562/563 and 1508/1541 - Japanese manufacturer, very good quality, same type of machine, parts are easy to find but a little more expensive.  

Pfaff - 145 / 545 / 1245 family - same type of machine, very good quality, parts are hard to find and very expensive.  

There is a TacSew machine that belongs to this family and probably shares many parts, but I did not research this machine so I don't know anything about it.  

National 300N - same family, worth mentioning, but I don't know anything about it.  

IMO, these are the machines to keep an eye out for.  They will do anything you need up until you start sewing over 3/8" of material.  

I really thought I'd bring my 26 home, clean it and start sewing, but the farther i went into it, the more little parts and screws I found that were missing or needed replacing.  I ended up needing about 15 little things, but they were easy to find online and inexpensive to buy because my machine is a 206RB and not a 545.  

Good luck!

[MADMAX22]

Wiz has a 300n that I am pretty sure he still really likes. Its a nice machine from the looks of it. There is another company that the name excapes me right now which had the same machine as the 300n but different name. Saw one on CL a while back and really wanted to pick it up but funds werent there at the time. 

[Wizcrafts]

56 minutes ago, MADMAX22 said:

Wiz has a 300n that I am pretty sure he still really likes. Its a nice machine from the looks of it. There is another company that the name excapes me right now which had the same machine as the 300n but different name. Saw one on CL a while back and really wanted to pick it up but funds werent there at the time. 

I sold my 300N a year ago for $750.00, complete with a servo motor I bought and installed. It was a most awesome walking foot machine. It is a lot like a Consew 206RB-5.

[MADMAX22]

1 minute ago, Wizcrafts said:

I sold my 300N a year ago for $750.00, complete with a servo motor I bought and installed. It was a most awesome walking foot machine. It is a lot like a Consew 206RB-5.

Ahh thats good to know. What was the other version of the 300n, 

Ahh finally found it nakashima 280L I think it was. 

[Tejas]

There was a Nakajima 280L that I think was the same as the Juki 241H after Juki bought Nakajima.

[TinkerTailor]

Didn't juki also keep making some machines under both names for a while?