"Make America Great Again" and the leather trade

[JLSleather]

I think some folks get confused about what they "can't afford" to work for.  I got a guy - used to be my buddy, but now became quite proud of what he owns, which is strange since any money he has was gained by exploiting teh work of these "illegal" people.

Anyway, he was quite proud to show me his brand new king-cab truck, with all teh options.  Had a long pretty story to go with it, about how if you're a contractor, you have to look professional - and driving a 'nice' truck makes you look professional.  

I told him when I see a guy in my drive with a truck that comes with $600/month payments, I don't see "professional" -- I see a guy who likes shiny trucks and wants ME to pay for it .

In fact, I think if he shows up again, I'm gonna ask him what size he wears, so I can order him a new skirt.

POINT IS:  What is it that keeps you from being "able to afford" to work for less?  

After bad-mouthing the immigrant, the government, and the young -- are we ourselves guilty of a bit of "entitlement"?  I mean, everybody loves to point at someone else, but I'm already seeing people who go on about saving money and saving the planet now hanging Christmas lights and decorations.  No doubt they will add the cost of these as "overhead" and add it to the cost of their goods ....

Just an example of cost - a simple 'pancake' style holster.  Pattern available free on my site for a simple Glock 43 holster (download any time you like).  That pattern will require a little over 1/2 of a square foot of leather.  THE BEST leather for teh job is sold at about $10/foot (after shipping charges - delivered).  Some waste is expected even in a good hide -- nowhere near 50%, but lets use that for this example.  So, call it a FULL square foot.  There's $10.  Throw in a dab of glue and a couple feet of thread, and you have a whopping $11.50

Now, don't line up to tell me about all the "legitimate" expenses you can think of to add on.  In case the new guy doesn't know, I have an idea what that requires   The question is rhetorical -- ask YOURSELF if you are doing what you don't think others should do ....

Because I have kids in school, I meet other people with kids (whether I want to or not).  In the last couple of years, I have met several DOZEN people who do not work.. some of them NEVER have, and do not intend to.  I've heard them complaining that the 'welfare check' was late.  One was absolutely livid when finding out that she was going to have to pay a portion of her own rent herself (she's not paying it actually, the check she gets from tax payers will just be reduced a little, but she sees the that as the same thing).  And these people are not immigrants, politicians, or youth.

[TinkerTailor]

11 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

Now to my real point. You can't compete with "skilled" labor prices of illegal aliens. Why? Because they all live together. They will have 3-5 families living in one rent house splitting bills and all working at the same place. I have measured houses for flooring for landlords before. I was led to each bedroom where a different keyed padlock was removed so I could measure.

An American has his own 4 bedroom house, 2 cars and owns the rental house the immigrants are living in. He bought the house just to rent it to them. He bought it with a mortgage and won't actually own it for 25 more years. He used his other  already financed house as collateral to buy it, along with his boat, and dirtbike. Miss a payment and the cookie crumbles. You cant pay for these toys on a construction salary. The only way to get this stuff and actually own it is to sink your money into starting your own business, work hard for 20 years, put away the money in the bank, refrain from toys and extra bedrooms you don't need. When you have that 25 grand in the bank, get a new car. Or just sign up for another credit card.

The immigrant is living within his means. He has what he can afford, not what he can finance. More americans need to learn how to do this.

In any case, how someone lives at home has no bearing on the work they do.

Now the fact that the project managers are willing to accept sub par work is the reason the immigrants do it cheap. The reason the project manager is willing to accept it is the end consumer just wants it done cheaper. If the standards of the consumer went up, the expectation of quality will go back up the chain and the immigrants will do better work. They are maximizing their output. If sub-standard is the standard, why do better?

 

[cdthayer]

Before we get too far away from the original thread label of "Make America Great Again" and the leather trade, I have a question for the production people (I’m not in production, just repair and mending).

I read an article the other day that suggested that the Baby Boomer retirees are causing the luxury item industry to branch out into travel and amenities.  It seems that the current retirees aren’t spending as much of their money to buy items, but more for services these days.  If so, I’ve wondered if the custom leathercraft community has seen a real decline in “retirement spending” for their high quality leather items?

On a side note, I had a police officer come into the shop the other day to get some minor repairs done to his duty rig, and I remember commenting to him at the time that there wasn’t one bit of leather on the entire rig.  Everything that used to be leather on a rig was a man-made material of one kind or another on his.  He said it’s what officers are mostly using now.  The increased non-use of leather for traditional applications has got to be hurting the leather industry.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[JLSleather]

2 minutes ago, cdthayer said:

He said it’s what officers are mostly using now.  The increased non-use of leather for traditional applications has got to be hurting the leather industry.

Neat and trim is good, and cops are often expected to look "presentable" (pay no attention to the big belly and the disillusioned scowl  ).

This is something of a reflection on quality of workmanship, and one I agree with.  Personally, I would rather wear a clean, good looking WEB belt than an ugly, poorly done leather one (especially when the ugly is priced 10-15 times the pretty).

 

[TinkerTailor]

18 hours ago, MADMAX22 said:

The problem stems from the other half, ones that come up here to setup grow areas and meth houses in the mountains or mule the drugs up here

While it does have a small bearing on this issue, I ask you "Who bought the drugs and stuffed them up their noses?" American Citizens. People gonna get their blow, one way or another. Washington, Oregon, Colorado and Cali are FULL of white american citizens growing weed...and not paying tax on the income... It has long been proven that prohibition does not work. Regulation, rehabilitation and a better mental health system do help.

The war on drugs and its success/failure is a whole other topic, only loosely related to this issue, and totally not related to leather so I think we should leave it for another thread/forum. I'll gladly discuss, just not here.

[TinkerTailor]

8 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

Neat and trim is good, and cops are often expected to look "presentable" (pay no attention to the big belly and the disillusioned scowl  ).

This is something of a reflection on quality of workmanship, and one I agree with.  Personally, I would rather wear a clean, good looking WEB belt than an ugly, poorly done leather one (especially when the ugly is priced 10-15 times the pretty).

 

It also has a bit to do with the fact that the plastic tactical stuff is so damn innovative. Super-customization. This holster can be mounted hip/thigh/chest/forehead whatever, as long as you have all of your gear from acme defense systems......Those sliding cam lock buckles that don't work good with leather are great as well. Not enough uniformity in the leather world plays into this. In webbing, 1" is 1"....In leather, straps will vary more both due to cutter error as well as stretch

Plus, your daily duty belt can transform into full judge dredd mode just by clipping on the corset and garters kit......179.95

[JLSleather]

21 minutes ago, TinkerTailor said:

plastic tactical stuff is so damn innovative. Super-customization.

Yep, convertible is good.  Attachments are good.  Any time I can use one thing for multiple purposes, that's good.

Sometimes, leather people are not the most creative batch.  

Take a piece of leather like everybody else, use the same pattern as everybody else, and call it "custom" (or, the truly gifted call it "kustom") and then expect people to pay a mint for it.  

I know one in particular, ALL his stuff looks about the same.and when another guy made something "kinda like it" he asked that people don't copy his trademarked "design".  I advised guy #2 to go on about his business, as long as you aren't using Thing 1's logo, tell him to go back to his own yard   Might have been amusing, but Thing1's work looks like it was made by a blacksmith

 

 

[cdthayer]

We haven’t heard from the American sewing machine sellers that are selling machines made somewhere other than in the USA.  Is there much concern that possible Trump changes in Trade Agreements and his tariff comments might make things rough on sewing machine sales?

CD in Oklahoma

 

[TinkerTailor]

15 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

I know one in particular, ALL his stuff looks about the same.and when another guy made something "kinda like it" he asked that people don't copy his trademarked "design".  I advised guy #2 to go on about his business, as long as you aren't using Thing 1's logo, tell him to go back to his own yard   Might have been amusing, but Thing1's work looks like it was made by a blacksmith

Trademarks and patents.....I can prove that trademark and patent law as it has evolved in the United States and Canada has taken away the rights of the common man to do as he wills on his land and with his property, whether that property is physical or intellectual. It took 6 months of research which I managed to trim down into a pretty concise 11 page paper.....I'm thinking of editing out the old real name and posting the pdf here. It is a pretty technical paper, and assumes the reader has a basic knowledge of political science theory. In summary, it examines the history and origins of patent law in the United States (Canada followed the US model until the 80's) and the changes that were made over time in the effort to balance the interests of the individual/company that originated the design to profit from their ideas, with the interests of science wanting to use the ideas unrestricted as a stepping stone to further discovery. It then goes into the landmark cases in the 1980s in which large companies fought and won the right to patent living things such as canola strains. This lead to corporations suing farmers for their farms and winning because trademarked genetic material was found on their land. Genetic material that likely flew in on the wind as seeds or pollen from neighboring fields where the material was being grown. Canola can blow for miles.

I'm going to make it really simple here:

"We sold our souls for rock and roll."

Intellectual property rights as they sit need to be changed. Period.The whole deck is stacked in the interest of big business. If they want your Intellectual Property, they will get it.

[MADMAX22]

Agree with your response above tinker but like I was saying its not all happy times with the immigration issue. Dispite what some like to believe they arent all hard working decent people. Anyhow on topic I am curious how starting any production company works in the US now. We the american people are already thought of as having endless income which is reflected in various premiums we pay (goods, insurance, medication, health care .....) and we are actually required to obey the OSHA laws and EPA self appointed "laws" and "regulations" and probably a ton of other stuff that is required by a company started production here. 

So looking at starting a tannery for leather would require huge hurtles to overcome ecspecially something related to any chrome tanning and probably veg tanning as well. I guess a person starting out with enough money and time could eventually make it happen. Curious if it would be the same as the old saying in the aviation industry " How do you make a million dollars in aviation? Start with 2 million."

As mentioned its a big mess directed at making large corporations money, and the world trade organization which HRC set up with expansive powers to do what they want are all going to have to be overcome. I mean when companys can send motorcycle frames all the way to china, get them welded up, and ship them back cheaper then paying a decent wage to welders over here who can do a much better job, how do you compete with that. Pay a experienced welder $8 an hour ?