Blue guns 'n' stuff

[JLSleather]

Oh, since I'm pretty sure I'm on the right forum to have at least one want to argue about shipping charges (and whether my figures are correct).. here's some info to help you calculate it yourself (not that it matters, since I'll be paying it myself)..

Glock 17 "blue gun" is about 8" x 5.5" x 1" and weighs roughly 13 oz (with a dowel taped on)

Glock 42 "blue gun" is about 5.5" x 4" x 1" and weighs roughly 7 oz (no dowel)

That should give a good starting point ..

 

[SolarLeatherMachines]

JLS is correct.  Dealer pricing is 39.  Initial buy is is $1500.  But if you don't continue to buy in bulk, you'll be dropped as a dealer.  Pretty standard arrangement for a dealer.  

In addition, if you want to blame someone for shipping charges, blame the USPS.  The reason that everyone uses Priority Mail is because the USPS wont allow standard package rates to be printed on computer (stamps.com) without a huge account sign up charge.  Most small dealers (me) end up having to leave the shop, run to the Post Office, wait in line, to send the package the cheapest method.  So Priority Mail is easier, and tracking and insurance is included. (who buys extra insurance?)  Not to mention the cost for weights up to 1 lb are the same.  (oh, and priority cost is different depending on zip code. It ranges from $5.40 to $8.50 depending on where its going, and a lot of you live in the sticks)

Not to mention boxes, and padding. Envelopes don't work well: Ever see what a gun looks like after the USPS or UPS truck puts it at the bottom of the stack?  That little box alone is $0.75 -$1.50 (Uline.com)....and paper and tape.  That stuff isn't free.  Not to mention that people complain about the slightest scratch.  

Further, You're probably going to wait on that initial order of 40 guns.  Ring's is a great company, and I enjoy working with them, but like anyone else, they have production limits, and it can take weeks to get in an order.   Meanwhile, you're getting calls from some grizzled old bear asking where his blue gun is, and how he should have it by now 'cuz the guy down the street said he should get it in a week.    

Let's not forget the building to put the guns in, the electricity to power the interwebz, the heat....overhead, just the simple cost to open the door.  

So by the end of all that the dealer makes $2-$3....MAYBE.  We sell about 3 a week.  Do you really think that's enough to keep the doors open?  

So for us, Blue guns aren't a money maker, just simply a way to help our customers out.  Most want a gun THAT DAY, and aren't willing to wait the 3 days from an internet supplier.  

So that's my 2 cents.  




 

[OLDNSLOW]

Ya I think I know the guy that talked about a group buy, heck even the guys over on the kydex forum do it and the state gun owners website from that state I am in have done it, it can and usually does save the guys some money in the long run.  But all that BS aside I think I might be in need of another glock 19 and the sig p320 is going to be a big seller here soon and I don't think I have one of those.  The only problem with the sig p320 is it comes in so many flavors, oh my another decision to make.

[MADMAX22]

1 hour ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

JLS is correct.  Dealer pricing is 39.  Initial buy is is $1500.  But if you don't continue to buy in bulk, you'll be dropped as a dealer.  Pretty standard arrangement for a dealer.  

In addition, if you want to blame someone for shipping charges, blame the USPS.  The reason that everyone uses Priority Mail is because the USPS wont allow standard package rates to be printed on computer (stamps.com) without a huge account sign up charge.  Most small dealers (me) end up having to leave the shop, run to the Post Office, wait in line, to send the package the cheapest method.  So Priority Mail is easier, and tracking and insurance is included. (who buys extra insurance?)  Not to mention the cost for weights up to 1 lb are the same.  (oh, and priority cost is different depending on zip code. It ranges from $5.40 to $8.50 depending on where its going, and a lot of you live in the sticks)

Not to mention boxes, and padding. Envelopes don't work well: Ever see what a gun looks like after the USPS or UPS truck puts it at the bottom of the stack?  That little box alone is $0.75 -$1.50 (Uline.com)....and paper and tape.  That stuff isn't free.  Not to mention that people complain about the slightest scratch.  

Further, You're probably going to wait on that initial order of 40 guns.  Ring's is a great company, and I enjoy working with them, but like anyone else, they have production limits, and it can take weeks to get in an order.   Meanwhile, you're getting calls from some grizzled old bear asking where his blue gun is, and how he should have it by now 'cuz the guy down the street said he should get it in a week.    

Let's not forget the building to put the guns in, the electricity to power the interwebz, the heat....overhead, just the simple cost to open the door.  

So by the end of all that the dealer makes $2-$3....MAYBE.  We sell about 3 a week.  Do you really think that's enough to keep the doors open?  

So for us, Blue guns aren't a money maker, just simply a way to help our customers out.  Most want a gun THAT DAY, and aren't willing to wait the 3 days from an internet supplier.  

So that's my 2 cents.  




 

Kind of curious, so medium flat rate box that can hold say an order of 5 guns for example, flat rate of 13.50 with insurance, free box, easy drop off, printed shipping available how that would equate to 8 bucks a gun for shipping?

[JLSleather]

44 minutes ago, MADMAX22 said:

Kind of curious, so medium flat rate box that can hold say an order of 5 guns for example, flat rate of 13.50 with insurance, free box, easy drop off, printed shipping available how that would equate to 8 bucks a gun for shipping?

Yeah, see this is what I'm getting at, sorta.  Makes for a nice story, about the downtrodden shop owner who has to go to the post office.  Here's a thought... instead of begrudging the cost of boxes.. why not just pick up some FREE priority mail boxes while you're in the post office?  Better yet -- just have them delivered to you in 50-packs like I do.. they'll bring 'em right to the door, and they're FREE (and so is the delivery).

And SINCE IT'S PRIORITY, the mail carrier will PICK UP the ones I send out.  I don't generally do it that way, since that guy got enough to carry already, and I know the folks at the post office anyway.  But I COULD just hand it to the mail guy, and not even go.

And it's true -- the USPS charges priority shipping by zip -- but you know the zip from the guy's order, so no legitimate reason to charge $7-10 EACH gun.  One gun may cost $8, but the next 8 average about $1 each shipping (depending on the size of the gun).

2 hours ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

Let's not forget the building to put the guns in, the electricity to power the interwebz, the heat....overhead, just the simple cost to open the door.  

Agreed.  But I have that here, too.  In the end, though, anybody who wants can charge whatever they want.. none of that is up to me.  I'm simply saying that there is a better deal FOR ME.  WHY would I pay someone else's "overhead", when I could just be paying MINE?  If I buy 10 guns, I save over $100, and there's my electric bill taken care of.

Is there ever going to be a delay ordering from down there?  Perhaps - wouldn't surprise me.  But by ordering this way, basically about every 5 guns I order, I get one free.  

If the next guy isn't interested in something like this, fair enough- no harm no foul.  I didn't put any of this up to volunteer for an argument.  Anybody not interested in something like this, feel free to ignore me at will -- no offense taken

[SolarLeatherMachines]

12 hours ago, MADMAX22 said:

Kind of curious, so medium flat rate box that can hold say an order of 5 guns for example, flat rate of 13.50 with insurance, free box, easy drop off, printed shipping available how that would equate to 8 bucks a gun for shipping?

Hi Max, 

Charging $8 each for shipping is CRAZY.  I would never do it.  You can ship 5 guns, well packed for about $12 Total via Priority.    Wow.  Crazy.  Do people DO that?!

There's also another option.  The SENDER can pay the postage on stamps.com and send it to the shipper.  I would be perfectly happy to do that.

EVERYONE hates paying shipping.  

 

[JLSleather]

I don't much mind paying shipping -- I wouldn't likely do it much for free, so don't expect anyone else to do it free, including the post office.

If someone getting the guns from the manufacturer, having them sent to them, then marking each one up $10 is acceptable, then certainly you wouldn't fault a guy for charging for a legitimate service.  The shipper takes your package from one location to another -- no problem paying for that reasonable service.  But the "retailer" or "supplier" just gets something I could get myself and then charges me more for it because he / she can.  And they "can" only if I allow it.

Now, someone will say that blueguns are supposed to be $50 each.  But they aren't - they're $40 each, plus whatever "suppliers" feel they can tack on.  I simply can't see the logic of paying someone 20% more for something when they aren't doing anything to make it better.

But this was never an opinion poll, or a vote.  Just information I sometimes point out here and a few other places, stuff which might be useful to leather people.  I'm not trying to persuade anybody - I'm just stating what I will be doing.  If absolutely nobody is interested in "getting in on it", I'll do it anyway for myself    

In the same way as ordering leather from Hermann Oak makes sense, so does this.  But while I'm interested in saving $10 per gun, I think I've done enough of this thread

[Bolt Vanderhuge]

What I am about to post is not to try to argue about pricing. I am all about saving money and agree with much of your way of thinking on the what have they done to earn that extra money. Anyways, I just went to Knifekits website that sells blue guns for $41.95 and wanted to compare their shipped price to that of your example from earlier. So for 2 guns from them I would pay $95.33 shipped via FedEx and $98.90 shipped via USPS priority. So at minimum of $9.33 more thru them. Yeah I would choose from you in that case.

Then I started to think about the $1 increase per gun and decided to do the calculate price thingy on USPS website. I picked a random  5 numbers and came up with shipping from my 85201 zip to 32105 which apparently is a place called Barberville Fl. I put in a package weight of 1lbs and looked up standard priority shipping. It was $8.35 with the include $50 insurance coverage. The standard retail shipping, the one that you have to go in for, showed up as $8.15. I then changed the weight to 2lbs. The priority price jumped up to $12.75. I then weighed my Rings Blue Gun Colt Commander and it weighs 32.85oz. So it is 2lbs by itself. Thank goodness this gun can fit in the small flat rate box but there would not be any room left for another gun. For multiple guns it looks like it would be more practical to move up to the next size flat rate box. Then stuffing say 5 guns in that medium box would get you your moneys worth for shipping.  

Also the insurance only covers up to $50 so if you were sending 5 guns @ $195 and the package got lost you would be out $145. That is if extra insurance was wanted of course.

 

Are you basing your prices on a business account or something? I am sincerely asking since I just started to sell and would like to pay the cheapest rates possible.  

[JLSleather]

I have the Commander blue gun, and it weighs 11 oz WITH the dowel attached to it.  I assume that you have the "weighted" version of teh blue gun, which is done for "realistic" training purposes. Hardly necessary for holster molding, but not harmful, either.

As a general rule, flat rate boxes are MORE expensive than the other priority boxes.  With holsters, most of the space you are shipping is air.  The flat rate boxes will save you money if you're shipping heavier items.  When I ship one holster, or say a holster and a mag pouch, i use these boxes...

https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?categoryNavIds=shipping-supplies%3apriority-mail&categoryNav=false&navAction=push&navCount=0&atg.multisite.remap=false&categoryId=priority-mail&productId=P_O_1096L

And yes, I was using a business account, so my packages insured for $100 (not $50).  But today I shipped 2 blue guns priority, and added insurance, and still only $9 for the PAIR.

For two or 3 holsters, I like these:

https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?categoryNavIds=shipping-supplies%3apriority-mail&categoryNav=false&navAction=push&navCount=0&atg.multisite.remap=false&categoryId=priority-mail&productId=P_O_BOX4

Definitely cheaper than the medium flat rate box.  But you can use any box and still ship priority mail. 

But I'm not talking about 2 guns, or 3.  I'm takling about 40 guns. So, if they cost me $39 each, and I charge $40 each, then people are saving about $10 per gun, and there's no way to get me to think the shipping on that order would be more than $40 (which I would make at $1 per gun 40 times).  Same principle with leather.  Retailers will send you one side of leather for $20.  Hermann Oak sends me 10 sides for $50 - so I'm getting great leather for LESS money AND avoiding about $150 in shipping charges.

Oh -- in my 'example' of 5 guns, say they weigh 4 lbs (they probly wont but they could).  Total cost $200.  Shipping from me to  85201 would be $12.54 for priority mail, insured for $200, using a regional A box (which is free from teh post office just for the asking).  I just checked

If you use the medium flat rate, it's a bit more.  Priority mail 56377 to  85201 in med flat rate with $200 insurance is $16.95  Which still aint so bad... considering you're talking about 5 guns, so about $3.40 each.

Edited February 10, 2017 by JLSleather

[Bolt Vanderhuge]

Before continuing with the side discussion, count me in for at least 3 blue guns if you do go thru with the initial ordering.

I am seeing that your price is from the Regional Rate Box A pricing. I do not have a business account at this time. Looks like I should see if the cost to get one would be worth it for me considering I will probably only ship a few holsters per month. This is just a hobby/side type of thing for me.

[JLSleather]

7 minutes ago, Bolt Vanderhuge said:

Before continuing with the side discussion, count me in for at least 3 blue guns if you do go thru with the initial ordering.

I am seeing that your price is from the Regional Rate Box A pricing. I do not have a business account at this time. Looks like I should see if the cost to get one would be worth it for me considering I will probably only ship a few holsters per month. This is just a hobby/side type of thing for me.

I may not have been clear there.  The prices I just quoted were for ANYBODY... and the price is for anyone wanting to insure that package for $200 with the usps.  No business account required.  My Gramma can get that price

 

[Bolt Vanderhuge]

43 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

I may not have been clear there.  The prices I just quoted were for ANYBODY... and the price is for anyone wanting to insure that package for $200 with the usps.  No business account required.  My Gramma can get that price

 

I never noticed the Regional Box pricing before DOH! Looks like I need to order up some of those boxes as well. Thank you.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Bolt Vanderhuge

[JLSleather]

Glad ta help.  Gotta keep an eye open most the time ... there's some folks relyin' on us leather folks to not check on these things!

[JLSleather]

Sometimes, a guy kin git a break.. just sometimes.  IF ya had a 'blue' gun in XDs fashion, aguycould download a pattern fer it over there 

Edited February 11, 2017 by JLSleather

[JLSleather]

Been out for a few days.. gittin' people to move my stuff safely   Good to see you folks takin' up that latest holster pattern!