question on doing a mexican round braid

[Windrider30]

which is better to use when doing a Mexican round braid a brading pricking iron or punching an 1/8 inch hole (using 1/8 lace for my waistcoat/vest)

[NVLeatherWorx]

I always use a standard thonging chisel that corresponds to the size of lace I use and do it that way.  You get uniform sized slits and the spacing is perfect for the technique.  I am sure that there are several opinions out there as to what works for others but that is what this community is for - sharing information and ideas.  I would suggest that you do a test run of just a few inches (centimeters in your case) with each possible method you can use and see what the overall outcome and appearance is; pick the best of the two for your project and then use that same process every time you use that lacing technique going forward.

Good luck, and drop us some photos once you have it done.

 

[Roq]

For 1/8" lace use a size 0 punch if you want round holes. I do it both ways, slits give a slightly cleaner appearance with round holes being slightly easier to work with.

[Halitech]

if the stress on the item is low, use a thonging chisel (ie wallet edging). If the stress is high (ie motorcycle seat) then use round holes. The slits will be more likely to tear in a high stress location compared to round holes

[Chief31794]

On Mexican Basket Weave (also called Round Braid), I use holes (no. 0 as stated, with no 1 on the 3 holes around the corners).  For Double loop I use the slits, just personal preference but I don't like the way two pieces of lace coming out of a slit looks, just me. I think either is satisfactory and is easier and quicker to punch the slits with a thonging chisel than it is to punch round holes, I use a template for the holes to get them evenly spaced and straight, however, there is still some slight variation due to having to punch each hole individually.

Chief

[Halitech]

5 minutes ago, Chief31794 said:

On Mexican Basket Weave (also called Round Braid), I use holes (no. 0 as stated, with no 1 on the 3 holes around the corners).  For Double loop I use the slits, just personal preference but I don't like the way two pieces of lace coming out of a slit looks, just me. I think either is satisfactory and is easier and quicker to punch the slits with a thonging chisel than it is to punch round holes, I use a template for the holes to get them evenly spaced and straight, however, there is still some slight variation due to having to punch each hole individually.

Chief

/bows down to the Master

and the master has spoken

[Windrider30]

Thanks all and this Mexican basket weave round bread what ever you want to call it lol is going on the front edges and along the bottom. Think the slit might be the best way to go but as someone suggested I will do a test run one some scrap that I have left over from cutting the leather!!

[Chief31794]

On 12/6/2016 at 9:41 PM, Halitech said:

/bows down to the Master

and the master has spoken

Thanks Halitech, not sure Master is the right word, maybe "crusty old guy". I appreciate the comment though.

Chief

[Halitech]

17 minutes ago, Chief31794 said:

Thanks Halitech, not sure Master is the right word, maybe "crusty old guy". I appreciate the comment though.

Chief

I still go to your videos for doing the corners. I can do the rest fine but even with all the times I still need help on the corners so I'm glad you did those videos

[Windrider30]

2 hours ago, Halitech said:

I still go to your videos for doing the corners. I can do the rest fine but even with all the times I still need help on the corners so I'm glad you did those videos

ooh videos where? always enjoy watching videos and actualy have decided to go with a round holes punch as the 1/8 lace I am using will slide better though this garment leather then it does though a slit especialy as you end up going though the same hole a few times!

[Halitech]

Do a search on youtube for Chief31794 and you'll find 5 videos on how to start, finish, do the corners and splice

[Windrider30]

6 hours ago, Halitech said:

Do a search on youtube for Chief31794 and you'll find 5 videos on how to start, finish, do the corners and splice

Thanks and gawd how I hate splicing!!!! I tend to work with a LOT of lace in one go to avoid splicing!!

[NVLeatherWorx]

18 hours ago, Windrider30 said:

Thanks and gawd how I hate splicing!!!! I tend to work with a LOT of lace in one go to avoid splicing!!

But just remember, every time you are dragging that long run of lace through each hole/slit you are applying friction to it and the more friction that is applied, the more wear that is being applied and it will weaken the lace as you get closer to the end.  The reason that it is recommended to work with no more than 2 to 3 yards at a time is that the amount of wear that is applied over a short length is not enough to create the risk of premature failure of the lace because the fibers have not been overly stretched or stressed.  I agree, splicing is a pain in the 5th point of contact but it is there for a reason and I learned my lesson on that long ago when I decided to just do an entire wallet with one super long length of lace; after about 4 months I had to undo it all and replace it because it failed and the failure was because the fiber structure was basically worn out as a result of all of the friction that had been applied during assembly.  Now I just bite the bullet and splice every 2 1/2 yards and I get over it; and I do the wet splicing technique.

[Windrider30]

4 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

But just remember, every time you are dragging that long run of lace through each hole/slit you are applying friction to it and the more friction that is applied, the more wear that is being applied and it will weaken the lace as you get closer to the end.  The reason that it is recommended to work with no more than 2 to 3 yards at a time is that the amount of wear that is applied over a short length is not enough to create the risk of premature failure of the lace because the fibers have not been overly stretched or stressed.  I agree, splicing is a pain in the 5th point of contact but it is there for a reason and I learned my lesson on that long ago when I decided to just do an entire wallet with one super long length of lace; after about 4 months I had to undo it all and replace it because it failed and the failure was because the fiber structure was basically worn out as a result of all of the friction that had been applied during assembly.  Now I just bite the bullet and splice every 2 1/2 yards and I get over it; and I do the wet splicing technique.

wet splicing what is this? first time I have heard of this term.

[Northmount]

5 hours ago, Windrider30 said:

wet splicing what is this? first time I have heard of this term.

Skive and glue or cement.

Tom

[NVLeatherWorx]

northmount nailed it for you.  The wet splicing method is not commonly used but it produces a much more natural look and doesn't require any additional thinking or technique (aside from making sure that you skive the correct sides of the two pieces that you are cementing together that is).  

[Windrider30]

42 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

northmount nailed it for you.  The wet splicing method is not commonly used but it produces a much more natural look and doesn't require any additional thinking or technique (aside from making sure that you skive the correct sides of the two pieces that you are cementing together that is).  

Ah ok that is how i do my splicing anyways did not know there was a term for it!! Still hate doing it with a passion but will bite the bullet on this on and work with smaller amounts of lacing. 

[Windrider30]

Ok one more question, this time about the distance between holes. Now the lace that I am going to use is 1/8th inch so will be doing an 8th inch hole as the garment leather will stretch a little to allow for two or more passes, but what is a good distance between holes to really show off the braid work? Or is it more of an eye ball kind of thing? I am going to go 1/4 inch from the edge all the way around instead of my usual of an 1/8th of an inch from the edge as I think the 1/4 will help protect the edges and bottom a bit more.

[NVLeatherWorx]

That is one where you may find your answer by doing a test run with some scrap leather and a little bit of lace to find out if your adding extra depth will still allow you to get the braided look and feel.  The results of the look and feel are based on the original idea that your lace line will be about 1/8" from the edge and that you are using a 1/8" thonging chisel which is already proportionally spaced.  Once you start changing any one pre-defined dimension the results will change as well.  On this specific stitch you may not be able to see and the feel the braid effect as much as you may like.  I personally would do the practice run on it to see for myself if that is what I am looking for and if it would even work.  I would not recommend messing with the spacing from hole to hole though as it will look odd with such a thin lace and I am not aware of anyone who makes 1/4" chisels or lace of the type that would be used here.  Everything here is proportional so the only way to find out if any adjustments would work is to test it out for yourself.

[Thor]

If you want to make your life a little easier. There's a 4-in-1 punch made by Ivan Leather and sold by Tandy. This will speed up your process. 

[Windrider30]

5 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

That is one where you may find your answer by doing a test run with some scrap leather and a little bit of lace to find out if your adding extra depth will still allow you to get the braided look and feel.  The results of the look and feel are based on the original idea that your lace line will be about 1/8" from the edge and that you are using a 1/8" thonging chisel which is already proportionally spaced.  Once you start changing any one pre-defined dimension the results will change as well.  On this specific stitch you may not be able to see and the feel the braid effect as much as you may like.  I personally would do the practice run on it to see for myself if that is what I am looking for and if it would even work.  I would not recommend messing with the spacing from hole to hole though as it will look odd with such a thin lace and I am not aware of anyone who makes 1/4" chisels or lace of the type that would be used here.  Everything here is proportional so the only way to find out if any adjustments would work is to test it out for yourself.

I think I am actually going to go with a round punch instead of the thonging chisle as I like the look of the round hole a little better than the thonging chisle as this is garment leather and it does pull easily so I think the hole will give me a little more freedom but yeah will have to do a practice run to see which will be better

[Windrider30]

Ok huge thanks to everyone for your help, so far this is what I have found, When braiding garment leather, you CAN go either 1/4 inch or and 1/8 of an inch from the edge and you can still see the pattern, how ever that being said the 1/8 inch from the edge looks better so that is what I am going to do. Now I am still working on if I want to use round hole or slit I am leaning towards the slit as it seems to hold a little better and I do not have to worry to much about the spacing that I would with a round punch. Doing a little more experimenting and then hopefully by this Friday I will have my lace (just placed the order woo hoo) and will give you all some pics of the progress!

[Don Ayres]

I can't find any of chief31794 you tube videos for the mexican roind braid, does anyone know where they are ????

Thanks

[billybopp]

Chief retired from leather work and sadly took his videos down.

Bill

[Don Ayres]

I wonder why he took them down, they were a great resource ?