Trying to figure out the basics

[spectre6000]

Could you please define or elaborate on the following:

"...basically one level on top..." I think this is the same as "any shapes below the top surface, or vertical curves, (etc.)...", but it's not immediately clear what you mean in isolation.

"...not very tough to penetrate..." What would be considered tough or not tough in this context?

"...safe vertical working range..."

"...take-up parts..."

Looking at things from a strength perspective is sort of my go-to. If money were no object, that would simply lead to the biggest mamajamma extant. I learned last night in chat that machines can have a lower limit to the thickness thread they can handle. A Campbell-Randall awl machine is probably too heavy duty (but look at that gorgeous exposed mechanism!); it states a thread capacity of 3-7 cord and/or 138-415. #138 seems to be a decent middle ground, but lighter thread is not at all an unlikely scenario. I completely don't understand the cord system... That seems to be specific to the actual fiber of the thread...

[Singermania]

To understand as much as you are trying to understand you might be under valuing the experience of the members on this forum..... in other words its a lot to expect to gain the understanding that they have gained over many years and many experiences in just a few questions.

Perhaps its like riding a horse or playing golf, you can do all the theory and understand it thoroughly, you can even practice for a couple of weeks, but without years of experience you'll never really get it all. 

[brmax]

I think your on a roll, with machines in some engineering sense, as having a limit to thread thickness.  Also rolling towards a decision with thread size, though I would just say generally a size machine below 138 and then another above 138 will be much quicker in your study,  whenever you explain the purchase.  Example the uppers on a boot will be best fabricated with the smaller thread and with a machine best suited, or a couple different small thread machines. Good luck with your choice, and description for others in how to choose sew machines from your perspective.

Floyd

 

 

[spectre6000]

Experience is necessary for the qualitative aspects of a thing. In this instance, the qualitative aspects are things like the actual act of sewing, some design of a given feature over another (i.e. servo versus clutch motor), or, lacking access to things like manufacturing tolerances or metallurgy, the quality of one make or vintage over another. Things like foot clearance, SPI, RPM, needle and thread sizes, inches of meterial, and throat depth are purely quantitative. There are numbers and units. Similarly, features like cylinder arm/flatbed, servo/clutch motor, walking foot/bottom feed/etc. are all binary characteristics that are similarly quantitative. There are qualitative aspects to each of the binary feature sets to be sure, but that's a broad enough brush and a specific enough target that it should be fairly easy to communicate in a broad sense. 

It's a big complex subject matter, and I'm approaching it from a (whatever side of the brain is associated with math and numbers versus language and aesthetics) brained perspective where the prevailing tendency is (the other side of the brain). 

The thing about committees and such is not me; someone was poking fun at my spreadsheet comment. This is for my own personal shop. I am the board and sole executor. I guess I might try to justify something to my wife, but it'll ultimately just be me justifying it to myself using her as a sounding board. I'm just an engineer. The idea of buying tens of thousands of dollars worth of machines, and all the time wasted and frustration spent using the wrong machines over that time is something I've learned to avoid through the act of buying tens of thousands of dollars worth of machines and time wasted, etc. This community exists for learning, and I'm attempting to do so. Once I feel I have enough of a base to be conversant, I'll likely call a specialist/dealer/manufacturer to get to the deeper and more technical aspects. 

[dikman]

Your analogy to fishing is interesting, you say you want the pole not the fish, but if you asked on a fishing forum what fishing rod should I get  guess what they would say? "What type of fish are you after?" Because the type of fish (to the knowledgeable fisherman) largely dictates the the type of rod, type of reel, size of line, lure/sinker/bait etc etc. In other words that is the starting point, just as with sewing machines what you want to make will dictate the type/size of machine you will need. That is a given. It doesn't matter how much one talks about other factors that is the crucial question. You are already aware that a machine that can handle heavy/large thread (and obviously thicker material) has a lower limit in that it will be extremely difficult to do fine work with it - if not impossible. This is why people usually have more than one machine.

If you decide to call a dealer/manufacture to enquire about machines, guess what they will ask first - "what do you want to sew?" The answer to that question will determine which machines they talk about.

A spreadsheet full of all this information would be a wonderful thing indeed, and in fact has been suggested before (usually by someone who is relatively new to all this) but nothing has ever eventuated mainly, I suspect, because they began to realise the enormity of the task.

[mixmkr]

I think the query was viewed from a favorite position in some aged, over upholstered seating arrangement, trying to sum up which fishing pole catches what fish and why it separates in just buying fish in the frozen food section....

IOW, forming a knowledge base to decide if bottom feeders might taste better than pan fish and if a fly rod can do it all.....and/or why not....eh?

[spectre6000]

I think mixmkr might have me better pegged. I'm not trying to figure out which sewing machine I should get, I'm trying to figure out how to figure out what sewing machine I should get. It's an extra level of abstraction as we say in software engineering.

The fish comment was in reference to the give a fish/teach to fish saying; I know just about nothing about actual fishing.

Another way to look at it might be through the saying, "If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail." The tools we have tend to dictate what projects we tackle and how. If all you have is a tube of superglue, you're probably not going to try to weld up an engine hoist, and if you were so bold as to try you'd not do a very good job. I don't do any particular thing with any regularity. Leatherwork, for me, is a supporting role in a much larger skillset. I do it because I can, it's fun, and it gives me another level of control over material and process. It is not often its own end. Knowing how to know what machines are good for what and why will hopefully guide me toward the best hammer for the wide variety of nails I'm likely to encounter.

[Singermania]

You can play with fancy words and paragraphs here forever, in the end you'd be better off to talk to a couple of suppliers who know what they are talking about.... talk to more than one though.   I also was a programmer, analyst programmer and analyst, and yes it is possible to study programming and write a decent program.  Its not quite so possible to study sewing machines and actually be able to operate one well and accumulate years of valuable experience.

Alternatively say what you want to sew, how thick and sit back and wait for some suggestions.  Always keeping in mind of course that if your interests are too diverse that a single machine might not cover the breadth.   A Singer 97-10 is not going to do a zig zag stitch on a neoprene stubby holder, a Pfaff 335 isn't going to sew 1" of leather and felt on a fender saddle and a cowboy CB4500 saddlery machine will take up a pair of jeans but wont sew your wife's undies.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Singermania

[Wizcrafts]

I'm outta here

[dikman]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I'm outta here

I can understand why. We're going in circles.....