My guide to the best vinegaroon you've ever made.

[Goblinworx]

On 2/14/2021 at 1:26 PM, chuck123wapati said:

i just leave the lid a bit loose, but i only make a pint at at time so not much hydro gas. 

I normally make about a gallon at a time with the plastic jugs the white vinegar comes in. Since I have made it a few times, I took and punched holes in the old vinegar bottle tops and switch them out.

The steel powder is working well from the tests I have done so far.  It's much cleaner and has kept a black color instead of the muddy rust that steel wool makes. It a bit more expensive at $ for 100 grams but I'm happier with his clean it is and also it turns over in just a few days.

[chuck123wapati]

On 2/18/2021 at 4:51 AM, Samalan said:

Chuck nice work on that sheath got to love that Roon .

thank you.

10 hours ago, Goblinworx said:

I normally make about a gallon at a time with the plastic jugs the white vinegar comes in. Since I have made it a few times, I took and punched holes in the old vinegar bottle tops and switch them out.

The steel powder is working well from the tests I have done so far.  It's much cleaner and has kept a black color instead of the muddy rust that steel wool makes. It a bit more expensive at $ for 100 grams but I'm happier with his clean it is and also it turns over in just a few days.

awesome i may have to try that out next batch.

[Goblinworx]

Sorry $10 for steel powder  vs $2 or for steel wool 

[fredk]

On 2/14/2021 at 5:17 PM, Goblinworx said:

Wondering if a fermentation air lock might work well in this process

I do not think so. In fermentation of alcohol you want to exclude oxygen and allow the carbon dioxide to escape through the water trap. The CO2 is pushed out due to pressure build up in the jars. O2 cannot get into the jars through the water trap.

I think a top with holes, with or without short pipes attached, in a well ventilated area is the way to go

[Matt S]

If the OP is still around, I'd be curious about his take as a chemist on using other iron sources for striking leather black rather than everyone tediously reacting their own ferric acetate. With the presence of water almost any source of iron will work. Will Ghormley uses a drum of water with rusty strap iron in it. I'm sure that most of us have noticed that blood does the same job too, as do iron filings (e.g. from a splitting machine). Iron diet supplement pills work if ground up and dissolved in water. I tend to use iron sulphate crystals from the garden centre. All you're doing is providing a way for the iron to react with the tannic acid in the leather leftover from the tanning process to form FEO3 (an insoluble blue-black lake). I have scepticisms on the importance or specialness of vinegaroon in achieving this effect, though I admit that the acid left after the reaction may make a difference in the longevity of the leather -- but that in turn presupposes that the leather isn't washed in plain water after striking (which I presume we're all doing after using any striker including vinegaroon, right? ).

[chuck123wapati]

On 2/27/2021 at 3:43 AM, fredk said:

I do not think so. In fermentation of alcohol you want to exclude oxygen and allow the carbon dioxide to escape through the water trap. The CO2 is pushed out due to pressure build up in the jars. O2 cannot get into the jars through the water trap.

I think a top with holes, with or without short pipes attached, in a well ventilated area is the way to go

Yup an air lock because you don't want wild yeasts from the air to spoil your wine. it would do no real good for roon.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Matt S said:

If the OP is still around, I'd be curious about his take as a chemist on using other iron sources for striking leather black rather than everyone tediously reacting their own ferric acetate. With the presence of water almost any source of iron will work. Will Ghormley uses a drum of water with rusty strap iron in it. I'm sure that most of us have noticed that blood does the same job too, as do iron filings (e.g. from a splitting machine). Iron diet supplement pills work if ground up and dissolved in water. I tend to use iron sulphate crystals from the garden centre. All you're doing is providing a way for the iron to react with the tannic acid in the leather leftover from the tanning process to form FEO3 (an insoluble blue-black lake). I have scepticisms on the importance or specialness of vinegaroon in achieving this effect, though I admit that the acid left after the reaction may make a difference in the longevity of the leather -- but that in turn presupposes that the leather isn't washed in plain water after striking (which I presume we're all doing after using any striker including vinegaroon, right? ).

I always thought vinegar was used because it eats up the iron quickly. I use it first on any rusted metals before buying store bought chemicals. Might have to try just water but i think it would take forever and a day to dissolve enough iron. Do you use your iron sulphate in water?

[Matt S]

9 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

I always thought vinegar was used because it eats up the iron quickly. I use it first on any rusted metals before buying store bought chemicals. Might have to try just water but i think it would take forever and a day to dissolve enough iron.

Rust isn't really water soluble, the water is basically just a way of getting the iron containing molecules into contact with the tannic acid in in the leather fibres in order to react. Mr Ghormley just gives his rustbarrel a good old stir when he needs it to black some leather. I've not used this method but he mentions letting the leather soak in the stuff so I don't think it's as fast a reaction as vinegaroon.

You can see his high tech equipment here: http://www.willghormley-maker.com/MakingHOGRig.html

I know that the rig he's making in that page isn't' very dark, but I think that's a deliberate choice with this piece and of course the darkness varies with the amount of soaking time and amount of tannic acid available in the leather.

Do you use your iron sulphate in water?

Yup, just a teaspoon of crystals in a jar of warm water. Do make sure you wash the leather thoroughly after striking, as the acid it leaves behind is (very weak) sulphuric, whereas the acid from striking with vinegaroon (iron acetate) is acetic acid (vinegar). Veg tan leather "should" be slightly acidic though, so don't go fannying about with baking soda or nothing, you'll do more damage than good. I did some samples years ago, measuring the pH at various stages, and found that just washing in tap water was PD close to what the leather started at.

I'll see if I can dig out my notes but that was a few moves ago so I'm not confident I'll be able to find them. I feel some experiments coming on...

[chuck123wapati]

On 3/1/2021 at 5:36 PM, Matt S said:

 

Yup, just a teaspoon of crystals in a jar of warm water. 

cool indeed i may have to try some i use it for some of my wood projects also. 

[Arturomex]

On 9/3/2019 at 1:07 PM, Mercurye said:

 I just have one question: here someone mentions that after about a decade the vinegaroon dissolved the top layer of a belt.

That link doesn't, anymore. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people here on the forum who have pieces they've treated that are ten years old. Anybody have anything that old they could comment on? And how they finished it?

On 3/1/2021 at 4:36 PM, Matt S said:

Rust isn't really water soluble, the water is basically just a way of getting the iron containing molecules into contact with the tannic acid in in the leather fibres in order to react. Mr Ghormley just gives his rustbarrel a good old stir when he needs it to black some leather. I've not used this method but he mentions letting the leather soak in the stuff so I don't think it's as fast a reaction as vinegaroon.

You can see his high tech equipment here: http://www.willghormley-maker.com/MakingHOGRig.html

I know that the rig he's making in that page isn't' very dark, but I think that's a deliberate choice with this piece and of course the darkness varies with the amount of soaking time and amount of tannic acid available in the leather.
 

Yup, just a teaspoon of crystals in a jar of warm water. Do make sure you wash the leather thoroughly after striking, as the acid it leaves behind is (very weak) sulphuric, whereas the acid from striking with vinegaroon (iron acetate) is acetic acid (vinegar). Veg tan leather "should" be slightly acidic though, so don't go fannying about with baking soda or nothing, you'll do more damage than good. I did some samples years ago, measuring the pH at various stages, and found that just washing in tap water was PD close to what the leather started at.

I'll see if I can dig out my notes but that was a few moves ago so I'm not confident I'll be able to find them. I feel some experiments coming on...

I'm also going to give that a try. Look forward to your future input on this, Matt.

Chuck, I'm curious about what kinds of wood you're using this on? It'd be a ripper on oak.

Regards,

Arturo