Clicker, Have you heard of it?

[Northmount]

9 minutes ago, catskin said:

I got this press home now and my problem is that the seller has not found the book. And I can't seem to get any responses from Bogle Greenwell or anywhere else about buying a book. If any of you have a book or books that pretain to the set up and use of this press I would gladly pay for you to copy and send them to me. Right now I have trouble figuring out which wires are to be live and which is the ground. there are 4 wires I found which is the ground to the frame It is black with a yellow stripe the others are black, blue and brown.  How can I tell which 2 connect to the energized wires.

What is the info on the motor nameplate?  Would help to know if it is three phase or not.  Sounds like the cordset is using European wire colours.  What kind of plug was on the end, or is it supposedly setup to be wired directly into a box?

Tom

[catskin]

1 hour ago, northmount said:

What is the info on the motor nameplate?  Would help to know if it is three phase or not.  Sounds like the cordset is using European wire colours.  What kind of plug was on the end, or is it supposedly setup to be wired directly into a box?

Tom

I have not seem the name plate on the motor since it is mounted inside directly to the pump.  As noted in the first post it looks like it is 220 single phase.  There is no plug on it. And the wire colors are not what I usually see here in Canada.  Here they would likely be black (live ) red (live ) white ( ground ) green ( grounded to frame ) this one on this machine is black with a yellow stripe.  So the wire colors are likely European style. Would there be a way of testing with a multi meter with the switch on and off to tell witch wires are to be the live 2?  I think I got a pdf attached that will show the wiring but how do I know by the letters what color the wires are?

F36.pdf

[Northmount]

4 hours ago, catskin said:

I have not seem the name plate on the motor since it is mounted inside directly to the pump.  As noted in the first post it looks like it is 220 single phase.  There is no plug on it. And the wire colors are not what I usually see here in Canada.  Here they would likely be black (live ) red (live ) white ( ground ) green ( grounded to frame ) this one on this machine is black with a yellow stripe.  So the wire colors are likely European style. Would there be a way of testing with a multi meter with the switch on and off to tell witch wires are to be the live 2?  I think I got a pdf attached that will show the wiring but how do I know by the letters what color the wires are?

F36.pdf

The diagram on page 13 of the pdf is for a three phase motor.  Item 1 is a manual switch.  Item 2 is a thermal overload breaker. When you hook up a 3 phase motor, you hook each of the phase connections to the 3 phase supply.  Then do a bump test to see if the motor rotation is correct.  If it is not, then you reverse any 2 of the 3 connections to change the direction of rotation.  You can prove the continuity with a multimeter set on resistance (ohms).  Resistance will be less than 500 ohms.  Turn switch 1 on.  Test the resistance across the wires.  Clip one lead from your multimeter to one of the wires and keep it on that wire.  Test the resistance to the other 2 wires.  If there is continuity in both of these tests, and the resistance values are relatively the same, you have a 3 phase motor.

Tom

[catskin]

Here is what I found,  Being rather busy today I did not get to opening the plate to see the motor to read the phase.  But when I used the meter on the 3 wires between the black and blue it showed continuity. between black and brown none and between blue and brown none.  So since the plate on the outside says connected V  220/ 60 Hz  I do believe that it is most likely 220 single phase.  And that likely the 2 wires ( black and blue ) that show continuity are likely the 2 that I will need to energize for it to run. The book that the PDF was made from  showed 3 phase wiring. It is not the book that belongs to THIS press.  Any other help will be greatly appreciated.  I DO NOT want to hook it up wrong and burn up the circuit board.

[Northmount]

On 2017-02-20 at 5:09 PM, catskin said:

Here is what I found,  Being rather busy today I did not get to opening the plate to see the motor to read the phase.  But when I used the meter on the 3 wires between the black and blue it showed continuity. between black and brown none and between blue and brown none.  So since the plate on the outside says connected V  220/ 60 Hz  I do believe that it is most likely 220 single phase.  And that likely the 2 wires ( black and blue ) that show continuity are likely the 2 that I will need to energize for it to run. The book that the PDF was made from  showed 3 phase wiring. It is not the book that belongs to THIS press.  Any other help will be greatly appreciated.  I DO NOT want to hook it up wrong and burn up the circuit board.

What was the resistance (ohms) between the black and blue?  I assume you had the power switch turned on?  If so, the only choice is black and blue for 220 VAC.  From the 3 phase circuit diagram, it appears the hydraulic pump runs continuously and that the push buttons (item 9) and possibly microswitch 8 on the handle activates the solenoid (10) to switch the hydraulic valve to provide force to actuate the clicker ram.    Switch 8 is the end switch to stop the ram at end of stroke.

On your home/shop wiring, the 3 conductors from the breaker panel are typically red, white and black plus bare ground.  White is neutral and is not needed for 220 VAC.  Red is 110, white is 0, black is 110.  So the voltage between black and red is 220 VAC. 

Tom

[catskin]

Thank Tom,

Yes the pump likely does run continuously I can see the solenoid ( electro magnet ) that activates the valve. I understand most of electric wiring, (just not 3 phase ) I have done house wiring and have wired up 220 volt motors. What I am having trouble figuring out is this motor wired as 220 single phase or 3 phase.  I talked to and electrician   on Wednesday and he said that it could be 220 single phase or three phase by what I told him on where there is continuity ( between the black and blue wires ) and not any to the brown one. I will be taking the wiring diagram and pictures of the motor plate and connections in the motor to him and we hope to get it figured out. Even he was surprised that there was no reading between the brown and black or blue  wires. That is when he said it might be single phase.

There might also be something wrong in wiring or switches etc. Since it is still on the trailer I might take it in and have it looked at.  But truth be told I would rather not spend a bunch of money on it if I won't be able to use it.

As for the reading between wires it was right to the top the same as if I touched the ends of the leads together that come from the tester.

Edited February 25, 2017 by catskin
added more detail

[Northmount]

Where the outside plate says 220, I would say it is very likely single phase.  If it said 208, then I would say it is 3 phase.  These are standardized descriptions.  For the equipment to be sold in North America, it had to meet these standards.

A 220 VAC motor will have quite low winding resistance including the starting winding, so would approach 0 ohms.  Your multimeter should be on the lowest resistance range when you check it.  Just went out to the workshop and checked resistance on a 3 hp 220 VAC compressor motor, 1.4 ohms.  On a 1.5 hp table saw motor, it is 1.5 ohms.  You really can't tell much about the motor other than having continuity or not by measuring resistance.

A single phase 220 VAC motor will run when wired across 2 phases of a 208 VAC 3 phase system.  It is well within the voltage level tolerances.  I have seen many 220 single phase connected to 208 (unit heater fans, pumps, etc.).  However, that is not a concern here since you will not be connecting it to a 3 phase system.  Just some added info for you to digest.

Tom

[catskin]

4 hours ago, northmount said:

Where the outside plate says 220, I would say it is very likely single phase.  If it said 208, then I would say it is 3 phase.  These are standardized descriptions.  For the equipment to be sold in North America, it had to meet these standards.

A 220 VAC motor will have quite low winding resistance including the starting winding, so would approach 0 ohms.  Your multimeter should be on the lowest resistance range when you check it.  Just went out to the workshop and checked resistance on a 3 hp 220 VAC compressor motor, 1.4 ohms.  On a 1.5 hp table saw motor, it is 1.5 ohms.  You really can't tell much about the motor other than having continuity or not by measuring resistance.

A single phase 220 VAC motor will run when wired across 2 phases of a 208 VAC 3 phase system.  It is well within the voltage level tolerances.  I have seen many 220 single phase connected to 208 (unit heater fans, pumps, etc.).  However, that is not a concern here since you will not be connecting it to a 3 phase system.  Just some added info for you to digest.

Tom

Thanks Tom,

I am hoping it turns out to be 220 single phase. I am not sure how to get the right setting on my multi meter for ohms. so I may not have had it set to the right setting. I have a few other things to check out like possible broken wires going to switches. Another thing that has me confused is that it does not matter if the red or the black button ( power switch I believe is pushed ) the readings are the same. It is when I turn a dial that the reading stop showing a continuity. This dial  has a click on /off then you can turn it more like you would a variable speed or like turning heat up or down on a heater.

[HENDREFORGAN]

To my knowledge there are very few clicker press makers here in the UK, most wholesalers are now importing Italian or Chinese made units.  We're considering one of these machines and the design of unit you have hasn't been seen at all in all our searches . . never seen one with the pillar at the end.

The fact that you can have 3 phase supply in North America that is the same voltage as UK single phase really doesn't help, does it?  In the UK, and in Europe too I believe, three phase is from 380 volts up to 415 volts.

Our cable colours are as follows : UK and EU Single phase : Live is BROWN, Neutral (return) is BLUE and Earth (ground) is YELLOW/GREEN and UK and EU Three phase (2004 on) are LIVE PHASES are BROWN, BLACK and GREY, neutral (return) BLUE and earth (ground) YELLOW/GREEN.  Prior to 2004 the colours were LIVE PHASES were RED, YELLOW and BLUE, neutral (return) BLACK and earth (ground) either YELLOW/GREEN or plain GREEN.

However just because a machine was made to accept THREE PHASE power doesn't necessarily mean that, within the unit itself, those extra phases were broken down to a SINGLE PHASE for an electrical item to work.  We have a commercial steam oven we use for moulding leather which is THREE PHASE supplied yet some of it's components are SINGLE PHASE taken from an internal board.

Whether at the motor or - ideally - the clickers incoming socket  . . count the number of wires . . five or three?.

[Northmount]

Referring to the manual, the potentiometer is item 7.  It is wired in series with the end switch item 8.  So is used according to page 2 to make small adjustments in the cutting depth.  It is not part of the power cord circuit.

The nameplate item 1 on page 2 shows the voltage the machine was designed and setup for.  I assume this is the tag you were identifying in your previous posts about the voltage.

Page 2 shows a box on the right near the rear.  This appears to be the control box and I assume is where your red and black buttons are.  It would appear that there is an electromagnetic switch (relay) that starts and stops the motor.  Red is likely the on push button.  When it is pressed, it applies control power to the mag switch, closing the circuit for the motor, and seals itself in to keep the motor running.  The black switch breaks the control circuit opening the motor circuit.  The control power appears to be 24 VAC, supplied by a control power transformer.  So without any mains power being supplied, there is no connection to the motor.  The continuity you are measuring is only the primary circuit of the control power transformer.

I would recommend that you get a qualified electrician to test and install your wiring as it is beyond your scope of experience and knowledge.  And as said before, 220 is single phase.  208 is three phase.

Some photos would go a long ways toward identifying the various switches, parts and locations.

Tom