EFKA VARIOSTOP VS HO HSING

[Diyer]

The durkopp Adler 205/370 I am buying has an old Efka Variostop motor and controller. The controller is a type 6F62AV. I have absolutely no experience of these, and would like to know how they compare to a Ho Hsing motor, which I currently have fitted to my Adler 105/64. I do not have the money to spend on an up to date Efka.The variostop seems awful complicated. Is there any point using it if I do not use the  pneumatic features, because I cannot stand the noise of a compressor?(Assuming my small compressor will do the job). I am not doing production work, and nothing in any quantity. There is also the problem of getting the 3 phase motor working on single phase- what is the best way of doing that?

[Uwe]

As for running 3-phase equipment on single phase power, you really need a rotary phase converter that look something like this:

Those rotary phase converter are big and heavy - it's essentially yet another 3-phase electric motor that's even bigger than the one you're actually trying to run. That 3-phase motor is tricked into running on single phase power and then acts like a 3-phase generator. The rotary phase converters cost considerably more than a nice, modern servo motor that does not require 3-phase power. You can build your own rotary 3-phase converter, but that's not everybody's cup of tea. There are all-digital state-of-the-art phase converters, but they cost even more. 

To me it does not sound like it's a viable or even desirable option to make your current Efka Variostop setup work in your home setting. You may indeed be better off removing all the automation bits and air cylinders and convert the machine back to a simple manual setup, with a nice servo motor.

Those Efka Variostop setups are actually awesome when used in the right setting. I just got done refurbishing a full-function Adler 467 that also has a 3-Phase Efka Variostop motor and controller. It's rather amazing to observe the choreographed dance of air cylinders and electric solenoids during the automated functions. While intimidating at first, it was also a little addictive to use while testing it. Alas I have no use for it in my home setting either. I hope to sell it to somebody in an industrial setting to do real production work.

 

 

 

[brmax]

Im not positive that controller soley operates the air operations. Seeing some controllers of that quality they the have ability to not use certain functions, its possible a manual for it is available. But the motor voltage is still an issue here, though the controller Im sure is low volt.

If you think you may want or need a reduction in speed that would include added torque available for extra thick materials.

Then in this case you may need additional funds. With some machines you could easily get a servo going for a couple hundred dollars. Adding to this in short order for that sew machine a reduction pulley system would be a great asset.

Floyd

[Diyer]

Thanks for that. I prefer simple, particularly when I have to do all the fixing. I have plans to put the clutch motor back on my 105/64, and have the Hohsing on the 205/370. Then part ex the 105 for a smaller cylinder arm machine here in Portugal. There is a dealer or two in the North that I will try.

[Diyer]

6 minutes ago, brmax said:

Im not positive that controller soley operates the air operations. Seeing some controllers of that quality they the have ability to not use certain functions, its possible a manual for it is available. But the motor voltage is still an issue here, though the controller Im sure is low volt.

If you think you may want or need a reduction in speed that would include added torque available for extra thick materials.

Then in this case you may need additional funds. With some machines you could easily get a servo going for a couple hundred dollars. Adding to this in short order for that sew machine a reduction pulley system would be a great asset.

Floyd

I have found the mauals for the 6F62AV controller, and had a quick look through it. I am not sure whether a single phase motor to work with the existing Efka control is possible, or even available.Any ideas on that one, or do I need to talk to Efka themselves? I think there are going to be lots of bits on my floor at this rate.....................

[Uwe]

I have a strong feeling (but no proof as of yet) that the Efka Variostop systems can operate with both 3-Phase and single-phase motors. The controller box itself actually runs on normal single phase power and it only controls the clutch/brake mounted on the motor, not the motor itself. The motor simply runs at full speed all the time. 

A call to Efka in Germany may a really good option before you start to dismantle things. They will be able to tell you which, if any, single phase electric motors are available for the Variostop systems.

[Uwe]

Page 6 of the Efka Variostop base manual (EN_BA_FKV_5(5)_090595.pdf) does talk about using single-phase and three-phase motors with the Variostop systems, so it is technically possible. Whether you'll be able to find a suitable single-phase motor is another questions.

[dikman]

The simplest (cheapest) way to run a 3-phase motor from a single phase supply is by using a VFD. Considering what you've said it seems to me that replacing it with a servo makes more sense than spending time/money on the Efka (regardless of how clever it might be).

Might be an opportune time to apply the KISS principle.

[SARK9]

Actually the simplest (and probably cheapest) way is to get a *static* phase converter like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HD-3-4-1-5-HP-Static-Phase-Converter-Mill-Drill-Saw-USA-MADE-Single-to-three/281866254808?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Daf94b720aabb4b93839885f6f203f534%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D391284079818

...which robs you of all the cool stuff you can do with the VFD but costs less than half the price. Disclaimer- I've not used this brand and use this ad STRICTLY for illustration purposes of a generic solution. I HAVE used static phase converters in a light industrial setting on low voltage 3ph MOTORS ONLY,  from 3-7 HP,  with good results. I have NO idea what the connections on your electronics require in this case.

 

-DC

 

[Uwe]

The motor part of the modular Efka Variostop system would be fine with a VFD or a Static phase converter, but the electronics inside controller box would likely not be happy.

On my modular Efka Variostop system here in the U.S., the main power connection box has four wire connectors, one for each of the three power wires, plus ground. All three power wires continue on to drive the 3-phase motor. Only two power wires continue on to the control box to supply single phase power.

The motor itself does not care how "clean" the incoming power is (perfect sine wave, choppy steps, or wobbly waves). The controller box DOES care and needs the clean, perfect sine wave power for its electronics.

With a static phase converter only one of the three phases is truly "clean" (the other two phases are wobbly weaklings mainly there to help start a motor from a standstill). You'd have to make sure that the two wires carrying the original, single phase, perfect sine wave carry on to the controller box.

Many VFD units output stair-stepping sine wave approximations on all three phases which are not suitable for powering electronics.

Rotary phase converters do output perfectly synchronized pure sine waves on all three phases, which is why they are used on systems that integrate both motors and electronics ( e.g. CNC mills)

You could, theoretically, power the two modular parts of the Efka Variostop system with separate power supply lines, which is what DC was suggesting above, I think. You could power just the motor with whatever phase converter you like. Then wire up the controller box separately, with a clean single phase power supply line.

Some of the statements above vary depending on which country you live in and what type of power supply you have coming out of the wall. 

Personally, just writing this up gives me a headache and "don't bother" vibes. A nice new servo motor sounds like a GREAT option to me right now.

 

 

[SARK9]

1 hour ago, Uwe said:

A nice new servo motor sounds like a GREAT option to me right now.

I have a really nice shiny Mitsubishi *Limi-stop-Z* servo motor unit that came with one of my Juki machines, complete with all the solenoid valves, positioners, trimmers, pneumatic lifts/reverse actuators, plugs and plumbing one could ever desire. The documentation for programming it is still readily available. One intriguing feature is described as a sort of "non-contact" electronic clutch which has a progressive sensor to attach to the foot pedal....a cyber-feathering prosthetic clutch solution for pedal-impaired klutzes like myself, thinks I. I have compressed air and an old school roto-phase always available here....but that type of annoying motor still has to run all the time.  I broke weak and went with an off-the-shelf servo from one of our Asian trading partners...a Consew CM-1000 in this case. Ain't nobody got time for dat.

-DC

[Diyer]

There are those of us that are working on the time is money principle, and others that LIKE  to take their time, because leathework is a Zen type of occupation. It would be lovely to have some things air operated, but I am not aware of the existence of a noiseless compressor. The old guy I used to work with always said that air is the most expensive form of useable energy. I shall probably ditch the 3 phase, unless a conversation with Efka changes that.

I didnt realize there are so many people that struggle with the clutch motors.I started my industrial sewing career doing outwork, and then found I was not fast enough.I changed to doing more custom items like Clint Eastwood hats, and made to measure clothing in leather.I was in that time is money loop then.

At the moment I am planning the "getting it home" work. I found that the plastic machine skates I have are rated at 200kg. Someone not too far away advertises he does removals, and the van is a front wheel drive, so the floor is low. I will see if he is interested in doing the job.

[RockyAussie]

On 04/02/2017 at 10:07 AM, Diyer said:

Is there any point using it if I do not use the  pneumatic features, because I cannot stand the noise of a compressor?

For production work I have found the Variostop very useful and if you check out the video our local newspaper made showing me making a key tag it shows the advantage of being able to quickly and easily lift the foot which is where the air comes in to use a lot. It does not use much air but I have had to replace the little switch valve which opens the air path once. I think it cost about $35.00 from a common air switch supplier. Here's the link http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/videos/wild-harry/43913/

Best of luck Brian.

[dikman]

Nice video, Brian. Your beard looks like mine, except yours has a bit of colour in it , but you've definitely got more hair on top than me!!!

Diyer, I think the big issue with clutch motors is that most of us hobbyists get a (hopefully) suitable machine and just want to get straight into sewing leather. Slow speed control is really essential for this and very few of us will have the time to learn to control a clutch motor (plus leather is probably not the ideal material to start to learn on). I tried, and that included making speed reducers and fitting larger pulleys to the head units, but to no avail. I doubt if I could do what I am if a servo hadn't been available. I am in awe of those who can crawl a clutch motor.