Can I make a scabbard out of this?

[ravenwing110]

Hi everyone,

My friend gave me some leather yesterday and I've always wanted a scabbard. Would that be terribly difficult for a complete beginner? If not, what are the absolute minimum tools I would need? I have craft knives and an exacto, and it came with some needles. I appreciate any help you guys can give.

[Mattsbagger]

Look up knife sheath scabbard videos. The knives you have will work. How thick is the leather?  What kind of needles? You will need an awl to punch holes for stitching. Also look up welts. You will need to put in scabbard so blade doesn't cut stitching. Need cardboard to make working pattern to start with. 

[Mattsbagger]

Oh yeah. Contact cement too.

[ravenwing110]

Thank you so much!

The leather is about 3/16", in some places 1/4".

The needles say "Harness needle size 0".

Is the contact cement for holding the welts in? Also, are the welts leather as well?

[Mattsbagger]

Yes welts are leather. You glue then sew. Sounds like the leather is heavy enough. Check out Ian Atkinson on YouTube Leodis Leather. He does a video of a welted knife sheath. Smaller version of what you want to do. Fancier than you will do to but it will give you the idea of what you need to do.

[Dwight]

Yes, . . . welts are leather as well, . . . contact cement "glues" the whole thing together so it does not move while you sew it.  

That is an ambitious project, . . . and personally I love doing knife sheaths and sword scabbards, . . . it is a real fun break from other things I do.

Good luck, . . . there are probably some good videos out there, . . . just be sure to put in a welt all the way around that sword, . . . if you don't, eventually you will cut the stitching, . . . and it will fall apart.

May God bless,

Dwight

[DJole]

The contact cement holds everything together while you stitch.
The welts are leather, too.
Usually sword scabbards (historically) are built from wood, which is then covered with leather. 
That doesn't mean that you can't have an all-leather scabbard if you want-- just realize that it's going to be rather floppy rather than rigid, and won't provide as much blade protection as the wooden scabbard.
Looking at your sword, I guess you aren't looking at strictly historical scabbards, so you can do whatever you'd like, as long as you like the results! 
Here's one site that discusses how to construct one type of scabbard: <http://www.yeoldegaffers.com/project_scabbard.asp>  (I am informed by experts that the stitches used there are not historical, in case it matters).
Some other things you might need:

• Are you going to dye the leather? If so, there are many threads on this forum discussing dye types, dye colors, and so on. 
• It seems like you're going to hand stitch this -- if so, you'll need to get expert opinion (not mine-- I am no expert on this!) on what thickness and kinds of thread will be good for this. 
• You'll need some kind of finish to protect the leather from rain and sun (and dirt, and  mud, and etc.)
• I remember reading somewhere that if you make an all leather scabbard, you shouldn't store your sword in it over a long period of time. The chemicals won't be friendly for your sword.

Edited February 21, 2017 by DJole

[bikermutt07]

If You just want to make a scabbord....

You can use a small hole punch for your stitching holes. You will need something to make even spacing. Either a stitching wheel or a fork, up to you. They have some good thick cheap thread at hobby lobby you can use in the leather section. A small jar if weld wood (contact cement) can probably be found at hobby lobby as well. If not, home depot will have it. Also if you want to do a snap retention home depot sell a small snap kit next to their hot glue guns.

This will get you going on a cheap, just wanting to put something together budget basis.

You will probably want to utilize some wax paper during construction. After Your contact cement dries lay the wax paper over the first piece. Set your welts on top of the paper. Line them up and slowly slide the wax paper down as you put the pieces together. The cement won't stick to the paper. Then repeat with the top piece on top of the welts. Make sure and tap it all down lightly with a mallet or something to set the glue after assembly.

[Mattsbagger]

12 minutes ago, DJole said:

The contact cement holds everything together while you stitch.
The welts are leather, too.
Usually sword scabbards (historically) are built from wood, which is then covered with leather. 
That doesn't mean that you can't have an all-leather scabbard if you want-- just realize that it's going to be rather floppy rather than rigid, and won't provide as much blade protection as the wooden scabbard.
Looking at your sword, I guess you aren't looking at strictly historical scabbards, so you can do whatever you'd like, as long as you like the results! 
Here's one site that discusses how to construct one type of scabbard: <http://www.yeoldegaffers.com/project_scabbard.asp>  (I am informed by experts that the stitches used there are not historical, in case it matters).
Some other things you might need:

• Are you going to dye the leather? If so, there are many threads on this forum discussing dye types, dye colors, and so on. 
• It seems like you're going to hand stitch this -- if so, you'll need to get expert opinion (not mine-- I am no expert on this!) on what thickness and kinds of thread will be good for this. 
• You'll need some kind of finish to protect the leather from rain and sun (and dirt, and  mud, and etc.)
• I remember reading somewhere that if you make an all leather scabbard, you shouldn't store your sword in it over a long period of time. The chemicals won't be friendly for your sword.

As long as it's veg tan which pic looks like and use dye and finish made for leather. No problem storing in scabbard in a dry/not damp area. Chrome tan can be hard on metal. Veg tan is all natural. Also the thickness he has plus welt should be fairly stiff. Will take HOURS to stitch with an awl. Also watch Nigel Armitage video on hand stitching. You can link it off this site or YouTube. 

[ravenwing110]

Thank you so much, everyone! This is exactly what I needed.

Quote

Are you going to dye the leather? If so, there are many threads on this forum discussing dye types, dye colors, and so on. 

It seems like you're going to hand stitch this -- if so, you'll need to get expert opinion (not mine-- I am no expert on this!) on what thickness and kinds of thread will be good for this.

I wasn't thinking of dyeing it, but my frog is black, so maybe I will. Go big or go home, right?

Is there another option besides hand stitching? It never occurred to me that there would be another way.

[Dwight]

While it would not be period correct, . . . you could lace it.  Using a round punch, . . . and a single line, lazy stitch, . . . it should look pretty good, especially if you used round leather lace.

Just make sure if you do that, . . . your welts are plenty wide enough to have the hole punched through them and still hold, . . . I'd suggest a 1/2 in wide welt all the way around.

Personally, . . . I'd just go ahead and stitch it, . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

[fredk]

Historically; sword scabbards were not made of wood and covered in leather, very few were, most were just thick leather

From studying actual scabbards for both swords and daggers found in London and Dublin digs there can been seen evidence that a scabbard/sheath was folded over, sewn with flesh to flesh joint then put on the blade and twisted round until the seam was along the back centre of the blade; thus no need for welts. The sewn seam was trimmed down and sometimes hammered flatter.

I refer you to archeology dig records publications from the Museum of London and National Museum of Dublin

A cardboard or thick paper pattern is a must for this project I think.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by fredk

[DJole]

On 2/21/2017 at 4:59 AM, ravenwing110 said:

Thank you so much, everyone! This is exactly what I needed.

I wasn't thinking of dyeing it, but my frog is black, so maybe I will. Go big or go home, right?

Is there another option besides hand stitching? It never occurred to me that there would be another way.

You might be able to get a helpful shoe repair person with a hefty machine to stitch it for you, depending on the thickness of the leather, rather than hand stitch it.
You don't have to dye it if you don't want to -- you should realize, however, that treating your leather to protect it will change the color somewhat. That's what leather scraps from the same piece of leather are good for. 

[DJole]

On 2/21/2017 at 7:12 AM, fredk said:

Historically; sword scabbards were not made of wood and covered in leather, very few were, most were just thick leather

From studying actual scabbards for both swords and daggers found in London and Dublin digs there can been seen evidence that a scabbard/sheath was folded over, sewn with flesh to flesh joint then put on the blade and twisted round until the seam was along the back centre of the blade; thus no need for welts. The sewn seam was trimmed down and sometimes hammered flatter.

I refer you to archeology dig records publications from the Museum of London and National Museum of Dublin

A cardboard or thick paper pattern is a must for this project I think.

 

 

I stand corrected -- apparently the number of surviving scabbards (a rare find, I believe) that are leather is greater than the wooden scabbards. I wonder also if it's a difference in earlier vs. later medieval swords, or even location?
Wood would have been cheaper and more plentiful than leather back in medieval Europe, but if you had a sword back then, leather would not be a problem for your budget.