Juki/Ferdco "Bobbin Case Spring"

[JerseyFirefighter]

I was looking to grab a bobbin case spring for my ferdco pro 2000. Oddly enough the manual's diagram shows everything but the spring that pushes against the bobbin when inserted into its casing. As it seems the sucker must have popped out and after a thorough shop investigation, im almost certain my little helpers swept it up before I was able to notice it. I know Johanna has specifically mentioned the bobbin case spring so I know my terminology isnt too far off. I attempted my local dealer and have been playing back and forth for a week. I would just like to order the spring and a few bobbins and move forward. I would be brave to assume that it is the same spring that is used in cowboys and cobras. Could anyone point me to an online reference where I may get the ball rolling? Thank you!

[JerseyFirefighter]

Perhaps the "shuttle spring" would be a better descriptive? Unfortunately I still am not catching it in the parts breakdown. 

[brmax]

Not familar with this part you mention. Im not finding it in a consumable parts listing for the 441.  The cobra here was used and to my knowledge didnt have such spring but im always learning. I can say unless it would have a retainer some how it would hit the floor in most all shops and be history.  

Floyd

[PeteBuh]

Google. Juki anti backlash spring   is that the bobbin spring you are talking about?

[Wizcrafts]

I looked up the specs for the Super Bull 2000 and it appears to be very similar to the Cowboy and Cobra 441 clones. If so, you could probably try to buy a bobbin case spring for a Juki 441 or clone. It is a coiled spring that is like a beehive: bigger on the bottom and narrower on top. If that internal spring is not sold separately, a replacement shuttle could be purchased from a dealer.

[JerseyFirefighter]

9 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I looked up the specs for the Super Bull 2000 and it appears to be very similar to the Cowboy and Cobra 441 clones. If so, you could probably try to buy a bobbin case spring for a Juki 441 or clone. It is a coiled spring that is like a beehive: bigger on the bottom and narrower on top. If that internal spring is not sold separately, a replacement shuttle could be purchased from a dealer.

Thank you Wiz. After the first two replies I thought I may be going crazy. Indeed, it looks strikingly similar to say an upper tension spring (conical/beehive). Are there any good online resources for such parts? I'd like to put the order through over the weekend so I dont have to worry about placing phone calls during the week. Very much appreciated. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by JerseyFirefighter

[JerseyFirefighter]

Looking at Cowboy's parts diagram it is the same breakdown as mine. I take it that the section where it should be is labeled "hook assy" that I would have to grab the whole thing. I dont particularly mind but hearing the bobbin chinging around in the case is both driving me nuts, and making me worried that something is going to awry if I continue to stitch without it. 

[Wizcrafts]

Have you asked our friendly leather machine dealers if they have a suitable replacement spring?

[brmax]

I would be interested in a part number from any of our dealers, that use these. This is new news to me on the part actually so thanks I appreciate the information. fwiw i didnt see a number in the juki manual either separating the assembly, bummer

Floyd

Edited March 4, 2017 by brmax

[Wizcrafts]

My thinking is that the anti-backlash spring is also an ejector spring and is integral to the bobbin housing in a 441 clone. It must be fastened to the bottom of the case and is probably not expected to go missing. If that's how the makers think, they might not offer the spring as a separate item. Hopefully for you guys, I am either wrong or mistaken.

[Wizcrafts]

Bob Kovar has these springs! They are $3.50 each and he has 4 right now.

[Wizcrafts]

After talking with Bob about these bobbin springs on the 441 machines, we've come to the conclusion that it is better to load and unload the bobbins with the case facing up, rather than down. Vibration can shake them loose from their mooring and let them fall out if the open case faces down.

I've been loading and unloading bobbins with the case facing up and towards me all along. That's probably why I still have the original spring inside my bobbin housing.

[JerseyFirefighter]

6 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

After talking with Bob about these bobbin springs on the 441 machines, we've come to the conclusion that it is better to load and unload the bobbins with the case facing up, rather than down. Vibration can shake them loose from their mooring and let them fall out if the open case faces down.

I've been loading and unloading bobbins with the case facing up and towards me all along. That's probably why I still have the original spring inside my bobbin housing.

Thank you Wiz for reaching out and finding them! I'm actually curious to see how similar they really are to the tension adjustment springs since that's what I had originally pegged it as when it first popped out on me. I must be a redheaded step child as I use the flatbed that came with the stand so loading the bobbin from the top is near impossible. I've tried sewing without it and didnt seem natural to me since I learned with the table on. (leaves a nice little side work space to place/stage stuff to boot. I'll certainly buy two just to have one to throw into that catchall/accessory drawer on the right in case I need another. You made my weekend. 

[Wizcrafts]

Maybe you can tack the spring on with silver solder so it doesn't fall out again.

[Uwe]

We also need to consider the distinct possibility that the 441 style shuttle hooks simply do not have bobbin case springs, by design. If you pop out the bobbin case in the position shown below (on my Adler 205), gravity is your spring and the bobbin will simply fall out.

 

I've looked at a fair number of shuttle hooks, and I can't remember seeing a single one that had a bobbin spring inside. 

Some vertical axis flatbed bobbin cases definitely have these kinds of springs, but those are usually called out in the parts diagrams. Even then, not all hook variations within a class use the springs (Example: JUKI LU-SERIES HOOK PARTS.pdf).

Edited March 6, 2017 by Uwe

[Uwe]

Upon further review (a.k.a. fact checking my own statements) it turns out that Adler 205 hooks have the inner bobbin case springs, but the Juki TSC-441 class hooks do not. 

Here are two pages from my 2016 Weaver catalog.

The Adler 205 spare parts page does list the "Inner Bobbin Case Spring" (Item 11, part number 367-15-027-0:

 

The Ferdco Pro 2000 switched from using actual Juki TSC-441 machines to made-in-Taiwan clones in 1995. It's possible that Ferco added an inner bobbin case spring as part of their enhancements. If you feel you really need that spring, you can order the Adler 205 version from Weaver - it should work just fine in the Juki 441 hook. 

The spare parts page for Weaver's Juki TSC-441 clone does not list a bobbin spring:

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Uwe

[JerseyFirefighter]

10 hours ago, Uwe said:

Upon further review (a.k.a. fact checking my own statements) it turns out that Adler 205 hooks have the inner bobbin case springs, but the Juki TSC-441 class hooks do not. 

Here are two pages from my 2016 Weaver catalog.

The Adler 205 spare parts page does list the "Inner Bobbin Case Spring" (Item 11, part number 367-15-027-0:

 

The Ferdco Pro 2000 switched from using actual Juki TSC-441 machines to made-in-Taiwan clones in 1995. It's possible that Ferco added an inner bobbin case spring as part of their enhancements. If you feel you really need that spring, you can order the Adler 205 version from Weaver - it should work just fine in the Juki 441 hook. 

The spare parts page for Weaver's Juki TSC-441 clone does not list a bobbin spring:

 

 

 

Thank you for doing a little bit of digging. I cant really speak to any changes in operation as i've kept sewing to a minimum since I have discovered its absence. What I did notice when I was using it was the very loose pull of the bobbin thread and subsequent "tinking" sound the bobbin made jostling around in the hook as the machine worked. Im certain it came with the spring as I've loaded my bobbins for the past year at anywhere between 6 and 10 o'clock positioning of the hook and the bobbin has always sprang out of the hook slightly at any position. (well that and i've had it fall out on me once prior). I would prefer it to be kept as was from the dealer for future servicing purposes. 

[CowboyBob]

Yes,all the Cowboys we sell CB3200,3500,4500,5500 with that type of hook come from the factory with that spring in them,that's why we carry them because they do fall out once in a while & people need them.When you get one you can pinch the inside coil together alittle & make it fit tighter so maybe it won't fall out so easy.

[Uwe]

As I was taking pictures for the Adler 205 hook timing topic, I noticed my spare hook actually had one of these elusive springs inside. I took a picture to document the occasion.

I never knew what I was missing in all those hooks, I suppose. I ordered two dozen of those springs from my supplier. That should last me a while and make my bobbins jump for joy in the various machines that use the same spring.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

I deal with parts issues as they come, deal with them and move on.  I think I remember sending this off to someone recently for this very issue; this is a parts book from an Adler 366 that shows the anti backlash spring installed.

This is a common hook used in a lot of machines, and the spring in question can be used here, or not.

 

[JerseyFirefighter]

6 minutes ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

I deal with parts issues as they come, deal with them and move on.  I think I remember sending this off to someone recently for this very issue; this is a parts book from an Adler 366 that shows the anti backlash spring installed.

This is a common hook used in a lot of machines, and the spring in question can be used here, or not.

 

Hello Gregg. It was me you were speaking with. I had never received the diagram and unfortunately my messages left the following days with the nice lady at the desk were never returned up through Friday (to which you were out of the shop) hence this post  

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

23 hours ago, JerseyFirefighter said:

Hello Gregg. It was me you were speaking with. I had never received the diagram and unfortunately my messages left the following days with the nice lady at the desk were never returned up through Friday (to which you were out of the shop) hence this post  

Sounds about right; I was skiing in Vermont Friday!   All the best.