mikesc Posted March 30, 2017 Report Posted March 30, 2017 "stitch welding" will work on engine blocks and gear boxes ( mostly it is a way to seal cracks in the walls of them )..but not a small surface area part like that, which is subject to stresses..but as Bob and Eric have said careful prep , pre heating and nickel rod welding with spot points to begin with ( rather than all at once from one end of the break to the other ) should do it fine.. Used to be a whole load of small specialised workshops around Bilston ( Staffs ) who could do this kind of work "with their eyes shut".. Quote "Don't you know that women are the only works of Art" .. ( Don Henley and "some French painter in a field" )
Members kellyblues Posted March 30, 2017 Members Report Posted March 30, 2017 Take it from someone who has handled a good bit of machines with very similar issues. Your best bet it to JB Weld it. I can weld cast,or braze it. You cause more problems than you are trying to fix by heating that machine up enough to braze or weld it. Oil and grease that's been in places for years will run out and the machine will be very sloppy. You will spend a stupid amount of time adjusting everything. And that thread is proprietary. I have all of the singer taps and dies though I don't loan them out. JB it or make a bracket and move on. Quote Home of wayward and unwanted sewing machines, big and small. Too many to list.
Members torrbuidhe Posted March 30, 2017 Author Members Report Posted March 30, 2017 20 minutes ago, mikesc said: "stitch welding" will work on engine blocks and gear boxes ( mostly it is a way to seal cracks in the walls of them )..but not a small surface area part like that, which is subject to stresses..but as Bob and Eric have said careful prep , pre heating and nickel rod welding with spot points to begin with ( rather than all at once from one end of the break to the other ) should do it fine.. Used to be a whole load of small specialised workshops around Bilston ( Staffs ) who could do this kind of work "with their eyes shut".. Any idea what this might cost? Specialist engineering up here means the oil industry or nuclear decommissioning, there's not the population to support much else. Quote
mikesc Posted March 30, 2017 Report Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) JB Weld = brand name of an epoxy resin two part "mix"( with a light "charge" of metallic dust )? ..if so.. it wont hold up..unless the two parts are also drilled through either side of the shaft and then the holes tapped and the parts bolted through together so that the bearing shaft saddle is then splinted or pinned together..and even then.. With real welding..the grease and oil may run, so..repack re grease and oil..better still is to fully strip ( disassemble ) the machine, taking loads of pictures along the way so as to know what goes where when putting it all back..and then weld the break as per Eric and Bob.. You wouldn't two part epoxy resin ( no matter what the manufacturers claim their product can do ) a crank or a camshaft end bearing saddle on a car , or any motor ,and expect it to hold up.. edit...just seen your post..sending it to Bilston ( if they still do that kind of work ) means more "transport"..try to find some one who welds / repairs cast iron stoves or cast iron antiques..or even an experienced sculptor who welds, or repairs or restores bronze, or cast iron statues.. Cost ..no idea..haven't lived in the UK for near 30 years, but I'd be surprised if the actual welding cost you more than the price of a bottle of "leapfrog" or Talisker storm"..some of the small outfits who work welding around rigs or nuke stations can do this kind of thing while watching the rugby on the TV and playing darts..if you take it to them stripped and ready..ask around.. 2nd edit..if you are near the sea ? try some of the people who repair boat engines..inboard not outboard..outboards are usually alloys..inboards are bigger and usually have a lot of cast iron parts..which crack or break, and need welding..so the people who repair them are good at fiddly cast iron work. Edited March 30, 2017 by mikesc Quote "Don't you know that women are the only works of Art" .. ( Don Henley and "some French painter in a field" )
Members kellyblues Posted March 30, 2017 Members Report Posted March 30, 2017 27 minutes ago, mikesc said: JB Weld = brand name of an epoxy resin two part "mix"( with a light "charge" of metallic dust )? ..if so.. it wont hold up.. I have a 1970 Ford 390FE that has a JB'd crack in the valley. That was done , oh..... About 17 years ago.....Still holding as strong as the day it cured. I had planned on pulling that engine when the JB gave up and weld it but it's still holding strong. And about 30-40 sewing machines that have come to me with a small pieces ( non visible) busted off here and there over the last 20 years , and various other repairs .....JB weld in this country works quite well if the proper cleaning and prep work is carried out. Yes welding is the best permanent repair. But the over all time it will take could purchase 5 more of those heads. They aren't rare by any means. Unless of course someone has that much free time. If you decide to weld it let me know and I will email you a copy of the Singer service manual for that machine. One thing I forgot to mention. If you weld it make sure you have a heat sink source on the bed of the machine. The lacquer coating known as " Japanning" can ignite . At a minimum it will likely bubble. Making a bracket is the simplest long term functional repair. Just depends on how much time you are willing to spend on it. Quote Home of wayward and unwanted sewing machines, big and small. Too many to list.
mikesc Posted March 30, 2017 Report Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) "valley"= ?..I have absolutely no idea which part of car or engine that could be .. but..I'll bet it isn't a camshaft bearing casting / saddle or a crankshaft bearing casting /saddle epoxy is epoxy ..which ever country one is in..chemistry is chemistry.. One of the worlds best two part epoxy "with charge" is Milliput..made in Wales..still wouldn't use it for that kind of repair..as a sealer ..yes..like for cracks in engine blocks or gear boxes.. But..for sticking cast iron parts together which are under stress and are "saddles" for spinning shafts or the bearings of spinning shafts..no..when you know what the molecules that are doing the sticking actually are doing ( that is more physics than chemistry ) and look like.and when you know what the crystalline ( yes it is a crystalline structure, that's why it looks as it does ) structure of cast iron can be ..and what impurities can be in it that epoxies may not want to bond to effectively.. Making a bracket ..or a bracket that wraps around an epoxied ( and drilled tapped and pinned or bolted shaft saddle ) and if that "cradling bracket" is itself then bolted to the machine bed, so everything is held rigid, is indeed one way..but, I'd weld it , if it were mine. If you do go the JBweld or other epoxy route..you must degrease and de-oil the surfaces totally..very thorough acetone cleaning of the mating surfaces before applying the epoxy..and keep your fingers ( which have grease even when freshly washed ) away before applying epoxy ..same applies when you are painting, lacquering etc.. *Some people are allergic to epoxies..so wear gloves ( non latex type hospital lightweight surgeons gloves..in case you are allergic to latex )..that will also keep your natural finger grease out of the mixture..turn the gloves inside out before disposal.. Edited March 30, 2017 by mikesc Quote "Don't you know that women are the only works of Art" .. ( Don Henley and "some French painter in a field" )
Members kellyblues Posted March 30, 2017 Members Report Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 49 minutes ago, mikesc said: "valley"= ?..I have absolutely no idea which part of car or engine that could be .. but..I'll bet it isn't a camshaft bearing casting. Quote Quote The valley in a 4 cycle, fossil fuel, internal combustion gasoline engine is the area below the intake manifold b, between the cylinder heads and encompass the castings for both the camshaft bushings and the valve lifters. You would lose that bet sir. That is precisely where it cracked. Now, I'm not going to pull the intake manifold and the valley pan off that engine just to take pictures. I've seen external cracks near coolant passages JB'd and lasted the life there after of the vehicle. I personally wouldn't do that, but I've seen it done. I've also seen someone JB a harmonic balancer on the crankshaft of a 355 Buick engine and drove it that way for at least 10 years that I know of like that. Being a Master ASE Certified Automotive technician , home and industrial sewing machine mechanic, industrial machine mechanic for the last 20+ years I've seen many different ways to achieve the same goal. If the goal is functional, it's a one hour job. If the goal is reconditioned, it's a job of many hours. Stick weld,gas weld, bracket, JB weld, bracket and JB weld will all achieve functionality. If this was let's say a 1880 Singer model 12 with gold shell paint and a hundred small pieces of MOP inlay all done by artisans I would ( and have) weld it. Well worth every last minute it would take. Or the one of a kind Faudels parlor machine that I have for that matter. This is a machine that Singer made hundreds of thousands of if not millions. Heck I probably have 10 of them in my storage container. I don't buy them anymore unless they are dirt cheap. This machine is the 66 of the industrial machines. The cost of time to weld it and refinish the bed if needed along with the necessary adjustments would replace it twice. I've shared my opinion and some of the experience it's based on. Over and out. Edited March 30, 2017 by kellyblues Quote Home of wayward and unwanted sewing machines, big and small. Too many to list.
mikesc Posted March 30, 2017 Report Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) "between the cylinder heads"..heads..so a V block then..not an inline..and a crack on the outside ( maybe, or maybe not over a bearing saddle, which in any engine is always thicker ..ie ..more metal..and a non stressed part..but which might leak..so could be repaired with epoxy.. Rather than on the inside..a completely broken off bearing saddle..what we would call the "bearing cap castings"<= which would be the part that would correspond to the part broken on the machine of the OP..and which is a stressed part..in an engine..or sewing machine..which could not successfully be repaired with epoxy. "Master ASE Certified Automotive technician ,"..sorry..and I normally try to avoid such contests..but I think that a degree in physics and another in chemistry ( and some others in related and unrelated subjects ) plus been doing my own engine work ..and custom engine work on bikes boats and cars since the late 60's..sort of gives me the edge on epoxies and what they can and can't do..and the professional machine mechanic<=Eric..and the Machine importer<=Bob..seem to be more to my way of thinking..I know who I'd trust to work on a machine that I owned..or whose advice I'd listen too..and already do.. Epoxies such as JBWeld are known ( or used to be known ) in the UK as "Bodgers putty"..barely better than two part "bondo"..and chemically very very similar.. Usually used by those who cannot weld ( or "lead" in the case of "body bondo" ) to precision standards..resins are usually to be used with specific tissues or fabrics ( glass fibre, carbon fibre, kevlar etc )..and then you can use them to make panels and chassis ( frames ) and whatever , even some engines, or engine parts, depending on the temps they reach ), with great strength ..NASA etc do .. But resins are not for professional long term repairs to cast metal..( with the possible exception of sticking sheets of metal to other sheets of metal or other substances,such as flat surface items to cast iron* , or where the surface areas compared to the loads and stress are in greater proportions, so you can use resins to stick sandwiches of diverse metals to each other, or to non metal substances ) especially cast iron<= this is why you don't stick engine mounting blocks to engines with epoxies..they won't stay "stuck".. Some of us spent many years using resins for our professional work..some of folks ( usually non professionals ) use them for a "quick fix"..which is why you find them at the supermarket next to the kitty litter. Resins are what the modern "plastic" home sewing machines are made from..and are fine for fixing / glueing broken parts on them..but they are not how pros fix metal parts in or on pro machines.. * epoxy used to stick a flat plate to a flat piece of preped cast iron will work..providing the vibrations are low, the stress forces are low, and especially the "shear" forces are low..if there is vibration to deal with Urethanes would be better for that ..but not to stick the OPs machine back together..they are sticky, but flexible..and you don't want flexible there..epoxy also degrades over time and in the presence of other chemicals..How fast it does so can be unpredictable.. I'd rather fix what I fix to be sure to last..( I make my stuff the same way ) than hope I get lucky re "the lasting" with a JBweld or other "quick and easy, cheap fix".. Going to make quality items, use quality equipment, use quality materials, make quality repairs..do the best you can..( and be proud of what you do or make )..Don't use the quickest, easiest, cheapest that you can..leave that way of thinking to walmart. btw..Bodger in that sense is not what Harry ( member here does..) bodger in colloquial English means "unskilled, uncaring worker"..makes cheap crappy items, or repairs .. Edited March 30, 2017 by mikesc Quote "Don't you know that women are the only works of Art" .. ( Don Henley and "some French painter in a field" )
MADMAX22 Posted March 31, 2017 Report Posted March 31, 2017 5 hours ago, kellyblues said: I have all of the singer taps and dies Ya know if you made some copies of these I am sure a bunch of people would be appreciative and pay accordingly. Quote
Members Constabulary Posted March 31, 2017 Members Report Posted March 31, 2017 You can call a JB weld repair what ever you want - as long as it delivers a good result its not better or worse that any other repair. Even when you call it a "bodger" repair - who care when it works. A lot depends on repair situation and how you prepare a certain repair. Not everybody is a professional and / or needs the best professional solution. And when you live in a remote / rural area and have no access to professional welding or brazing and have to deal with what you have then JB weld really can be a life saver. There is always a pro and contra... at the end you have to decide what you want to "invest" for a repair on a fairly common sewing machine. It often is an economical decision. Quote ~ Keep "OLD CAST IRON" alive - it´s worth it ~ Machines in use: - Singer 111G156 - Singer 307G2 - Singer 29K71 - Singer 212G141 - Singer 45D91 - Singer 132K6 - Singer 108W20 - Singer 51WSV2 - Singer 143W2
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