Price check on Ax/hatchet cover

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

This thread brings up a memory of a guy that came in a couple years ago with a knife he "Just couldn't find a sheath for".  After about a half hour of discussion about how he wanted it made, and how unique his knife was and how he just had to carry it all the time, he asked how much I thought it would be. I don't remember exactly what I told him, under a hundred but more than fifty, he was astonished that it would be that much.  Years ago, I would have done one of two things, depending on what mood I was in on that given day. I would have either lowered my price until he was happy (and it doesn't take much of that before you start to hate your job) or I would have gotten pissed off and told him to leave.  But, the years have taught me a few things, so I asked him calmly what HE thought it should be worth. He said "Well, I'd think $25 would be plenty."  I proceeded to explain to him the time involved in pattern development before construction even begins, and that the time to make up the pattern and possibly a mock up would exceed $25. This guy wasn't poor either.  Like I've said for years, at least half my job is customer education. The guy left (didn't want to spend more than $25 on a sheath for this one-of-a-kind super-special knife) and I was fine with it. My only mistake was that I didn't ask him right off the bat what he wanted to spend.

Anyway, the quality of your work warrants you asking a fair price for your time and materials. As mentioned above, you do very clean and professional looking work.  I wouldn't make it for $50.  But, whatever price you are happy with is the right price I guess. Best of luck to you, and very nice job on your sheaths!

[Boriqua]

Big Sioux ..  at this point I sell almost everything I make cold. I don't have to take nor do I want to take any more custom orders. I have a few people who have bought from me over the years and bought from me years ago when I was starting out again after retirement and I feel somewhat obligated to take care of them and genuinely enjoyed their patronage and who they were after I got to know them and like to take care of them but I could and would be very happy not to receive another "one off" order again ever.

I spent a lifetime in my real life negotiating payment and terms and drawing up or reading contracts. Now .. I like to make cool shit and see if someone likes it enough to buy it.

But .. I have a couple of loyal fans and I enjoy and want to take care of them.

Back in the early 90's I had a real job but still couldn't keep up with the amount of motorcycle saddle bags and tool rolls I was asked for. I am still happy people enjoy my work.

 

Edited April 9, 2017 by Boriqua

[CaptQuirk]

@Boriqua- I really didn't mean to insult you. And yes, I know there is a lot that goes into ANY project. Sometimes I get distracted and say stupid stuff, this being one of those times. It really wasn't meant as an attack of any kind.

[bikermutt07]

4 hours ago, Boriqua said:

Ummmm... WTH man. I thought this was a somewhat valuable and civil discussion ... then you question my integrity and honesty. That would be no .. I did not include drying time in the 4 hours. I have enough orders to keep me busy for the next 2/3 months so I dont sit around waiting for something to dry and include it in a time estimate. I dye it and move on to another stage of something else Im working on. Not cool.

I am not especially sensitive but I am all about honor and honesty and don't appreciate implications that I am inflating numbers.

I did include .. Dying it .. then coming back to dye it again .. and then it still wasnt the black I was looking for so I dyed it again. All of that means going and getting the pieces, going out to my dying area outside, dying and bringing back to my drying area. Not a huge deal but ... You do it three times and tell me what it cost you in time. Could I run or trot .. sure, but things you dont think about take time and no I didnt include dry or cure time. Its actually still curing

The inside was burnished with glycerin and water and a glass slicker. I didnt feel after it dried that it was as smooth as I like so I did it again. I dont know if I am happy with it until it dries. While not including dry time .. I do have to get my materials and tools and do it.

Then after I burnish the interior I grind a second time to make sure my parts match up well and I like the contours. Of course all the edges are beveled and burnished but you have to burnish some edges before you assemble because you cant get to them to do a proper or even a "good" job once its assembled.

Of course the welt has to be skived and tapered at either end so you don't have a chunk of leather with no explanation or a giant gap that doesn't make sense. Then you grind it all down again to make sure your three pieces at the welt look seamless. Although you already beveled the edges with your edging tool it makes some funky corners that you cant live with so you take a piece of sand paper and by hand go over the edges to make sure when you round them they don't look as faceted.

I make sure to grind my Scovill (DOT)snap, Not tandy or other junk, studs so they only protrude about 1/16 of an inch before you go to compress them so you get the absolute best and longest lasting fit. Of course I could just grab a snap that is close to right from my bin but then it wouldnt be from a craftsman. So maybe I am crazy but it took about 20 minutes just to grind my snap studs, check fit, remove and grind them again until they were perfect. Why .. because if you leave the stud to long the snap gets loose feeling and doesnt secure the gear as well. Make it to short and the snap at some point just pulls off. I have successfully found the sweet spot where I get the best snap grab and longevity. It lives at about 1/16 of an inch or there about and given that even leather of the same sold thickness varies I always check my snap length.

Now I have to sew it but because of its awkward dims I have to do some weird stuff at one end and then at the sharp edge of the hawk ,make a reasonably nice stitch through three pieces of 8 oz. Then I have to grind again. When you glue the three pieces and grind they look great but I find that after you sew even if they were glued the pieces move some and compress. Could be 1/32 off but when I go to burnish it will be seen from the moon so I glue, grind, sew and then grind again. I grind with a 60 grit and then a 125 grit and then a 220 .. then I burnish with saddle soap and water until I am happy. Then .. check when dry and see if I need to burnish again .. and often I do a light burnish with a little more saddle soap and water.

Now I spray with 50/50 resolene. First the front then the back and in all the crevices and I go from front to back and slowly build it up from the first super absorbent and sucks into the leather pass to a more built up and offers a sheen pass. The first 2/3 passes only gets sucked right into the leather but I have people that have had holsters from me for 10 yrs plus that say they wound up 4 wheeling through mud and were able to wipe off the dried mud from my gear and it looked great so its a practice I stick with. The later passes is about my eyeball and I kinda know when I have built it up so it looks good but wont crack.

Not done yet .. when the edges that I slicked with saddle soap and water are where I am pleased with my work I dye them .. then I buff them with a clean cloth and pass 2 - 3 coats of super sheen with a small paint brush cut about 25 water to super sheen.

Then .. I buff it.

Now if it is a piece I have done before and I know the steps ahead of time and I was in some sort of time contest I am sure I could get my time down. I work in several smaller areas on multiple projects so I cant have everything out I need for every project at once. But .. I am a craftsman .. and I look critically at every step and have made at this point a thousand projects or more and still not one of them left and I didnt look at it and say .. shit if I had only done "X" I might have loved it. Everyone who gets my stuff thinks its the awesome but .. I always think I could have done one or two more things better.

The hatchet cover .. your right .. pretty simple affair and I look to charge what I honestly think I would pay for something. I am interested in selling my stuff not looking at it on a shelf so I don't let false pride get in the way and look to charge $ 300 knowing I personally would never have paid $300. Awesome I priced it at $300 but if it sits here for 2 years its not worth anything.

You may not acknowledge all the steps above because you are just kind of working and going with the flow .. but .. they all take a considerable amount of time.

Or not .. and you are making something else and not sweating the details. I do some of that too. Below is one of a couple of hatchet/ax covers I did where it was all about just make a useful case. Its not dyed, just oiled, edges are edged but not burnished, inside is left raw and the stitching .. well lets not even talk about it. There are different levels of finished .. and some people .. and most obviously the people who have become my loyal customers ..understand the difference. In the end though .. its a freagin black hatchet case! 

If you truly believe that you can take a one off sharp object that you have never handled, that someone dropped off, and do all the steps outlined above in 2 hours .. you are, I guess, just a better leather worker than I.

 

Geez Louise, it would take me a month to do all those steps. No wonder my stuff doesn't look any better than it does.

Maybe you should be charging at least half of what the custom one off product costs.

300.00 hatchet = 150.00 sheath

[Josh Ashman]

I think your price was fair. I recently built the hatchet case below, and like you I really wondered what I should charge for it. My situation was a little different, in that the guy ordering it was getting it for his 8 year old sons birthday. I don't know them all that well, it's a friend of a friend deal, however I did spend a little time around the dad and his kid and both are very likable. The guy has a great job and no shortage of money but all the same, when he asked what he owed I told him to pick me up a 12 pack of beer next time he came by and we'd be even. He brought me a case of beer and a $20 bill and we were both happy with the transaction.

I struggle to find a decent price for small "one off" items so if possible I try to think of a trade, if it's an order I want to take. If I don't want to take the order I've learned to explain it away similar to Big Sioux's example above. 

Nice job on the case! 

[Boriqua]

Beautiful Cover Josh !!

This guys wants everything BLACK. Ugh .. I have 15 colors of dye out there and I get .. can you do it in black! 

Like I said though .. guy has been around buying stuff for years from me.

I dig sometimes taking stuff in trade ... I just started on a qt bottle of apple whiskey that was a thank you from a happy client. Pretty damn tasty stuff.

[Josh Ashman]

hahaha, I always think the same when someone orders black! Take care!

[JLSleather]

I generally don't do these, but I been known to make small projects of this type from the scrap bin.  If it's during a slower time, then it may go for a sandwich from your restaurant or some appropriate bait when I see you at the fishin' hole.  During busier times, folks generally understand that you either 1.) wait until the slower times, or 2.) pay the rate I would be making on the project you're taking me away from.

 

[bikermutt07]

16 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

I generally don't do these, but I been known to make small projects of this type from the scrap bin.  If it's during a slower time, then it may go for a sandwich from your restaurant or some appropriate bait when I see you at the fishin' hole.  During busier times, folks generally understand that you either 1.) wait until the slower times, or 2.) pay the rate I would be making on the project you're taking me away from.

 

#2 That is a great way to put it.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

1 hour ago, bikermutt07 said:

#2 That is a great way to put it.

I thought exactly the same thing!