Landis 1 thread looping on bottom

[Alexis1234]

I purchased a Landis 1 harness machine that was not running. I've managed to locate parts, needles,manual , etc and I have it stitching. Problem is, it'll sew a beautiful tight stitch for quite a while, then it'll start looping the threads on the bottom of my work. I have the correct number foot, needle and thread combo and I've played with the tension, etc.  Any one familiar with these machines and what I need to adjust? Thanks!

[Wizcrafts]

I'm not familiar with your Landis machine. But I am familiar with a lot of other lockstitch machines. Every time I get knots or loops of top thread on the bottom layer, it's because of one of three things.

1. The top thread has jumped or twisted up to the top of the upper tension disks and out of the center spindle area where the spring tension is focused. This results in a complete loss of top tension and the top thread gets dragged all the way down under the material.
2. The bobbin thread is binding inside of, or jamming coming out of the bobbin case spring or enclosure.
3. The top thread got pulled into the bobbin race because it wasn't held back at the start of the sewing run, or because the loose starting thread got drawn down as you sewed past it.

Cause number one can happen if the machine vibrates heavily as you sew, or if you are using twisty thread. Number two can be caused by unevenly wound bobbins, or by thread particles under the bobbin spring, or debris along the bobbin race. Number three can be avoided by holding onto the starting threads for at least three stitches, then carefully pulling them away from the bobbin area or throat plate slot.

[Yetibelle]

It would be great if you could link a video of it's setup.  There are not many good videos of the Landis 1 threading tension and sewing that I have found at least. 

It takes that huge bullet shuttle setup very cool machine.

 

[CowboyBob]

You might want to take the tension plates apart & look for dirt,old thread or grooves on them.

[Alexis1234]

Thank you for the responses. I'm going to play around with the machine in a bit and see if i can get this corrected. I will be posting a link to show how its running/ threaded- even if I'm doing it wrong...Nothing wrong with help from others. When I was researching this machine, I noticed there wasn't much out there and if I can save one from the scrap yard, that would be great. Thanks!

[Yetibelle]

Well I'm glad it's getting restored.  I think they are great looking machines.  

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I sewed on a Landis One exclusively for at least 15 years and still use one occasionally.  Wiz's advice is pretty solid, as usual. One other thing that is important for this machine to do good and consistent work is for the bobbin to be wound tightly and very evenly. If you did not get a bobbin winder with the machine, you can drill a hole in the side of your bench, chuck the bobbin into a drill and insert the other end of the bobbin into the hole to wind the bobbin. I did this for many years before I found a bobbin winder.  I also used a metal lathe when I had access to one for a couple years.   Also, the tension plates could have a deep enough groove worn into them that they won't hold tension anymore.  If this is the case, just the way the thread comes off the spool could cause enough resistance to mimic the tension from the plates and the machine sews good for a few inches, and then when the thread gets to a different spot on the spool and unwinds more easily, you lose tension and the loops show up on the bottom.  As Cowboy Bob mentioned, pull the plates and check for a groove.

[Alexis1234]

Awesome info! I'm thinking it is the bobbin that's causing the problem... I don't have a winder and have been tediously winding it by hand. I'm going to try the drill, sounds like a great idea. Thank you.

[tmwp43]

I have two Landis #1s. One rebuilt and the other being rebuilt. With my first one I got a copy of the owners manual. I have scanned it and can send you a PDF if you'll let me know where to send it.

 

[Alexis1234]

 I have taken everyone's suggestions and checked and rechecked over and over again  It's still randomly looping threads on the bottom... gentleman in Illinois that specializes in Landis 1 looked at my shuttle- it's not a "normal" Landis 1 shuttle- in fact he's never seen one like it before. Absolutely no way to regulate tension on the bobbin- no screws, nothing. I've sent it to him and we'll see what happens. We're thinking that this is the problem. Thank you again for all the help and suggestions!

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

You wouldn't happen to have a picture of that shuttle would you?  Just curious, as I too have a somewhat unusual shuttle that came with one of my Landis #1s, although there is a standard tension spring on mine.

[Alexis1234]

This is the first Landis I have ever worked on.. I have no idea if this is a "regular" shuttle or not. I'm just going on what I've been told

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Your shuttle is very much like mine!  Nobody that I've ever shown it to has seen another like it. It would be interesting to know the history;  was that an upgrade offered at some point in time by Landis?  Unfortunately there is very little information out there on the history of these machines.  It appears from the pictures that the screw to regulate the bobbin tension is missing, and part of the tension spring has been broken off.  That area of the shuttle can really take a beating by a careless operator.  Some shuttles had no tension springs at all, just a series of holes to run the thread through in order to set the tension.  I don't know if those came original that way from Landis, or if they were manufactured in later years as replacement shuttles, long after Landis quit handling parts for these machines.  At any rate, that type of shuttle was a poor design, IMO.  Please keep us updated on what Eli does with your shuttle.  I have several extras that need some work before they could be used.

[Alexis1234]

Spoke to Eli this evening...said my shuttle would have been non- operational the way it was. Sometimes you would have had tension, at other times the bobbin thread would have "freewheeled". He installed a tension screw and a spring. He's sending it back- we'll see if that was my issue.