Saddle Lac Sadness

[YinTx]

I have been on a bit of a quest to get a good antique resist, but with no luck.  I had thought the peeling issue I had might have had something to do with putting acrylic on top of saddle lac, but it became even worse when I put Saddle Lac on top of Saddle Lac.  Here is my order of operations as it were:

Tool

Dye - wait a day

Neatsfoot - wait a day

Aussie (on occasion) - sometimes add a bit of heat to ensure it goes in, wait a day

Saddle Lac - wait a day

2nd coat Saddle Lac - wait a day

Fiebings Antique Paste - Sheridan Brown - wipe off excess immediately, let dry 10 mins, buff some, dry some, buff some, until I'm happy with the highlights.  wait a day (at this point, the paste seems to turn chalky white - I don't like it, it stays that way after the last coat of Saddle Lac.  I have taken to coating it before it is completely dry to avoid this issue - this timing has not had any impact on the final results either way.

Saddle Lac - wait a day

Saddle Lac - wait a day

This means I can't get any item done in less than 7 or 8 days due to all the waiting, and then - - - - it peels, and goes into the garbage bin.

Someone please let me know which of these steps is wrong!?

Here is a photo of some small basketweave I did on a keychain that really exaggerates the peeling.  I've had it on large items that don't bend as well.  

I enjoy tooling, but I am not having any luck with resists and finishes.  Acrylic resists simply don't work at all, and the only finish that actually resists the antique peels horribly.

YinTx

[terrymac]

, First thing to do is to get yourself from Clearlac (old original Neatlac).  You can get it thru Springfield Leather and second thing is throw away the Neatsfoot and get yourself some "Bee's Natural Saddle Oil' or some extra virgin olive oil.  I personally like the saddle oil, but others prefer the other.  You are not too far off in your steps  You just don't need so many redundant steps  After you dyed the background and applied oil, let it dry ,  Use some wool shearing to apply a light coat of Clearlac, working it in to the leather,  Don't goop it on.  Depending on the amount of resist desired, you may wish to apply a second coat and let dry.  Tandy sells some synthetic wool pads that work quite well, and you can cut them in half.  Again using the wool pads, apply your Fiebings Antique paste, and now you can goop it on.  You do not have to wait to start removing the excess, just continue using the wool pads to wipe off, changing wool pads as they fill up with paste.  Using wool pads is the only way of getting the excess out of tooling marks and cuts.  This is where a lot people mess up the piece and end up looking like mud puddles  I will then apply a final coat of Clearlac for a finish.  Just remember Saddle Lac and Clearlac are totally different products.  If you want to see some finished products using this system, look at Hidepounder's work.  There is a really good video by Keith Valley which also demonstrates this process.  I wish I had a dollar for every saddle that has been finished like this, I could go fishing all summer 

Hope this helps,

Terry

[YinTx]

Terrymac,

Thanks a lot for the detail.  I have a can of Clear Lac, will try.  Just came across some other threads on Saddle Lac, seems to be the same ol issue.  Not sure what the heck its good for if it peels and cracks so much?

 Also found a mention of ONAT- Oil, Neat-Lac, Antique, Tan Kote.  I'll give that process a try. (So now it's OCAT).

YinTx

[terrymac]

Just be aware Tan Kote will lift some of the color of the Fiebings Antique Pase.  It can be used to dilute the paste.  As a normal practice, I don't use it unless there is a dirty looking spot on the untooled area of the leather and it will clean it up  Keith Valley, mentioned earlier, does use it as a matter of practce.  Just play with it and see what you like.

Glad it helped,

Terry

Edited May 26, 2017 by terrymac

[pnj]

my guess is you're putting it on too heavy?

I'm more interested in how or why acrylic (painted on?) doesn't work as a resist for you? Do you have pictures of your items that show it not working? I have noticed that no matter how many coats I do, the antique will still discolor the resist a little bit. But i can absolutely wipe off most of the antique paste. 

[YinTx]

I did this in two parts, since I was having such an issue already.  The top section has already been done.  The bottom section was antique applied, and immediately attempt to wipe off.  Not happening!!! Had to scrub the heck out of it fast with a wet rag to get any of it to let go.  This was after several layers of Angelus Acrylic for the resist.  I took this picture about 10 seconds after putting the resist on and trying to wipe it off.  As you can see, still shiny wet.

YinTx

 

[NVLeatherWorx]

10 hours ago, pnj said:

my guess is you're putting it on too heavy?

I'm more interested in how or why acrylic (painted on?) doesn't work as a resist for you? Do you have pictures of your items that show it not working? I have noticed that no matter how many coats I do, the antique will still discolor the resist a little bit. But i can absolutely wipe off most of the antique paste. 

Acrylic is less resistant to the oils/spirits contained within the Fiebing's Antique Paste so that is why you will see discoloration; it works great with water-based products though as you can take a damp sponge and drag it across the finish to pull up any extra.  All of the products that you use need to be compatible with the rest when doing things like trying to highlight or resist.  You can use acrylic as a final sealer on anything you want though, just not as a resist for everything.

[NVLeatherWorx]

On 5/25/2017 at 10:26 PM, YinTx said:

I have been on a bit of a quest to get a good antique resist, but with no luck.  I had thought the peeling issue I had might have had something to do with putting acrylic on top of saddle lac, but it became even worse when I put Saddle Lac on top of Saddle Lac.  Here is my order of operations as it were:

Tool

Dye - wait a day

Neatsfoot - wait a day

Aussie (on occasion) - sometimes add a bit of heat to ensure it goes in, wait a day

Saddle Lac - wait a day

2nd coat Saddle Lac - wait a day

Fiebings Antique Paste - Sheridan Brown - wipe off excess immediately, let dry 10 mins, buff some, dry some, buff some, until I'm happy with the highlights.  wait a day (at this point, the paste seems to turn chalky white - I don't like it, it stays that way after the last coat of Saddle Lac.  I have taken to coating it before it is completely dry to avoid this issue - this timing has not had any impact on the final results either way.

Saddle Lac - wait a day

Saddle Lac - wait a day

This means I can't get any item done in less than 7 or 8 days due to all the waiting, and then - - - - it peels, and goes into the garbage bin.

Someone please let me know which of these steps is wrong!?

Here is a photo of some small basketweave I did on a keychain that really exaggerates the peeling.  I've had it on large items that don't bend as well.  

I enjoy tooling, but I am not having any luck with resists and finishes.  Acrylic resists simply don't work at all, and the only finish that actually resists the antique peels horribly.

YinTx

First of all, you have applied two conditioning treatments before your first Saddle Lac, just do the NFO and let it sit for a day before you apply your first lacquer and then only once.  Your Antique paste should not be turning chalky white (or any other color than what it is) regardless of where it is located/collecting so there is something wrong with one of the products you are using that is causing this. The finishing of two coatings of Saddle Lac is again too much, once should do.  I can tell from the photo that you have provided that it is on very thick because the finish looks like glass and it shouldn't be that glaring.  The peeling is a combination of too much lacquer and too much conditioner which hasn't allowed penetration.  And, as has already been suggested, dump the Saddle Lac and start using the Clear Lac.  I have been using it for over 40 years (started when it was still Neat Lac) and have never found a reason to replace it nor a product that could (and I test all of the new stuff when it comes out just to see where it may fit in my processes).  Just can't find myself to quit using something that works.

[YinTx]

1 hour ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

Acrylic is less resistant to the oils/spirits contained within the Fiebing's Antique Paste so that is why you will see discoloration; it works great with water-based products though as you can take a damp sponge and drag it across the finish to pull up any extra.  All of the products that you use need to be compatible with the rest when doing things like trying to highlight or resist.  You can use acrylic as a final sealer on anything you want though, just not as a resist for everything.

In the example given with the "Book of Books" cover, I used Angelus acrylic for resist, and Angelus acrylic antique. It took a damp rag and a lot of scrubbing to get the resist off.    Good to know about the ability to apply acrylic as a final sealer on anything.  I'll give it a try sometime.

For now, I have a trial run going with some basket weave, and here is the process I am following:

DOPCAT:  Dye (Fiebeng's Pro Oil), Oil (Neatsfoot), Paint (decorative - Angelus Acrylic paint), Clear-Lac, Antique (Fiebeng's Antique paste, Angelus Acrylic), Tan-Kote.

I am ditching the Aussie for now.  Today is the "Clear-Lac" step.  I'll see how it goes!

YinTx

[JLSleather]

Tan-Kote has been used to thin antique paste for years, even though Fiebings had it right on the label of the paste -- DO NOT MIX WITH TAN KOTE.  People do what they do.

It does look like your Saddle-Lac went on pretty heavy.  I use it one some belts, in three very light coats, over the course of a day.  No problems with cracking or peeling.  Note that once I got a can that had "something" wrong with it.. came out heavy, and impossible to apply thin coats.  Replaced that can, and back to normal (never did know WHY).