Jokes 'n' stuff

[JLSleather]

Every so often I get contacted by someone "interested in" my work.  People I've never heard of before, who want to "partner with" me, or "carry your line", 'n' such.

Translation:  We want to sell the stuff you make, pay you less than the asking price, and have some of the money go to us instead of you.  We'd like you to put in more hours to make the same money, since we'd be keeping the difference ourselves.

Seriously -- these people are in the wrong business.. they could have been doing stand-up comedy all this time!

 

[Rockoboy]

Sounds like a good deal to me, but ... then again ... I am still waiting for my long lost Nigerian half brother to get back to me. I sent him all my money so he could afford to get surgery for a an infected toenail, but I haven't heard from him for a while.

Maybe this week.

Is 10 years long enough to get over an ingrown toenail?

[JLSleather]

Well, these are actual places who really do have stores... and strange opinions about what constitutes "earning" a living.

 

[NVLeatherWorx]

1 hour ago, Rockoboy said:

Sounds like a good deal to me, but ... then again ... I am still waiting for my long lost Nigerian half brother to get back to me. I sent him all my money so he could afford to get surgery for a an infected toenail, but I haven't heard from him for a while.

Maybe this week.

Is 10 years long enough to get over an ingrown toenail?

He most likely died from septic shock as a result of infection received during the surgery.  The toenail clipper got a little deep there.

[NVLeatherWorx]

1 hour ago, JLSleather said:

Every so often I get contacted by someone "interested in" my work.  People I've never heard of before, who want to "partner with" me, or "carry your line", 'n' such.

Translation:  We want to sell the stuff you make, pay you less than the asking price, and have some of the money go to us instead of you.  We'd like you to put in more hours to make the same money, since we'd be keeping the difference ourselves.

Seriously -- these people are in the wrong business.. they could have been doing stand-up comedy all this time!

 

I am so tired of those contacts that I now contact them back, directly, and gather as much information about them as I can before I share with them that my intention is publish their information across the boards and online community as part of a Blacklist.  I always get a plea to not do it as they are only trying to make life easy for themselves, or so the story goes; my response to that is, "get a real job and learn what it takes to meet all you needs, and be prepared because it ain't easy."

The biggest thing that I have been experiencing though is from those overseas garbage mills that want ME to carry THEIR line of fake leather or camel butt leather wallets, or whatever their low grade crap is.  I have real fun with those and I have even reported several of them to International authorities just to make their day miserable.  I know of 2 for sure that ended up being shut down and someone went to jail for a very long time.

Edited May 28, 2017 by NVLeatherWorx

[Rockoboy]

46 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

The biggest thing that I have been experiencing though is from those overseas garbage mills that want ME to carry THEIR line of fake leather or camel butt leather wallets, or whatever their low grade crap is.  I have real fun with those and I have even reported several of them to International authorities just to make their day miserable.  I know of 2 for sure that ended up being shut down and someone went to jail for a very long time.

Good for you! I wish there was some way to do this more effectively. We get a lot of cold-calls from who-knows-where trying to sell stuff or sign us up for some rubbish.

We have a 'No call list' in Australia, but the international callers usually don't adhere to the rules because our authorities are so weak that nothing happens to penalise those who break the rules.

What I do for those callers is, I ask them to hold the line because there's a knock at the door, stove has been left on, kids In the bath etc. After 2 or 3 minutes, I get back to them, but they have usually gone to the next target. If they are still on the line, I go around again with some lame excuse for them to hold the line. They usually hang up after that. I mean to say, how rude is that?

[YinTx]

5 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Every so often I get contacted by someone "interested in" my work.  People I've never heard of before, who want to "partner with" me, or "carry your line", 'n' such.

Translation:  We want to sell the stuff you make, pay you less than the asking price, and have some of the money go to us instead of you.  We'd like you to put in more hours to make the same money, since we'd be keeping the difference ourselves.

Seriously -- these people are in the wrong business.. they could have been doing stand-up comedy all this time!

 

Oh, you mean Etsy, or Ebay, or any other online store that wants you to put your stuff there so they can charge a fee for doing nothing?  

At least the actual stores might actually rep your product and attempt to sell it by putting it in front of others.  Most store fronts I see in the US are resellers, I don't think Macy's is manufacturing all the different brands of items they have in the store.  I don't think I'd be offended if Dillard's asked me to put my item on their shelf.  I certainly wouldn't attempt to black list them and bad mouth them to others for that opportunity.  If I don't want to put my stuff there, I say thanks but no and move on.  Why waste time on malevolence?

YinTx

[JLSleather]

• Well, Ebay is a bit out of control .. looks like about 15% in fees by time it's over.  
• Cutesy is about half of that (right around 7-ish %), and at that rate I can stand to list "standard" items- those which don't involve a lot of time.  I write that off as advertising.
• And I pay for web hosting on a site where I don't even have a store.  No trouble, all that all works out for me.

No, I'm talking about those people who like that word "wholesale", as in you sell it to us at about 40-50%, and 'make it up' on the volume.  Uh.. no thanks-- if getting bent over is bad, then getting bent over a dozen times should theoretically be worse   

Since I do have some stuff over at etsy and more on the site, then they shouldn't need much "demo" models -- maybe they care to buy a couple and I'll send them 50 business cards?  Seems there's just too much disparity between the terms they would like and the ones I would prefer

Yes, most (if not all) 'stores' in the US are just that. I'm not aware of any original walmart designs   Not a real concern to me --- they can do what they want (in fact, I've actually shopped at Walmart as recently as this year).  But I think I'll not put my stuff in the window.  

[NVLeatherWorx]

48 minutes ago, YinTx said:

Oh, you mean Etsy, or Ebay, or any other online store that wants you to put your stuff there so they can charge a fee for doing nothing?  

At least the actual stores might actually rep your product and attempt to sell it by putting it in front of others.  Most store fronts I see in the US are resellers, I don't think Macy's is manufacturing all the different brands of items they have in the store.  I don't think I'd be offended if Dillard's asked me to put my item on their shelf.  I certainly wouldn't attempt to black list them and bad mouth them to others for that opportunity.  If I don't want to put my stuff there, I say thanks but no and move on.  Why waste time on malevolence?

YinTx

I believe that he is talking about some other type of contact, i.e.: the ever popular "hey, I can help you sell your products through my sources if you would not mind sharing the profits with me or selling to me wholesale."  I don't know about how JLS goes about it but I NEVER do any wholesale work for anyone nor do I do consignment type agreements either.  It is my personal belief that if another business wishes to make money on leather, it is high time that they learn how to do it.  I have been asked several times by multiple operators if I would be willing to make a line of items for their shop but leave my Maker's Mark off of them so that it would not spark interest in dealing with me direct.  I basically told them to go, well, you know... 

[JLSleather]

Yeah, no 'consignment' either.

But, I'm not mad about it.  Those people.. I don't hate 'em, just seem to like it better when they aint around

 

[Stetson912]

Oh, you mean you DONT like putting in 8 hours on a whatever-it-is and have someone ask to sell it for twice what they pay you for it which is a quarter of what you should/could get for it because of your noted and displayed craftsmanship and quality and then not being recognized for the work you've done in the first place? Hehe...

Sounds like my job... Stupid Walmart lol!

I bet it gets frustrating. I haven't had the privilege to sell much of what I make. I've only done a few things for sale for friends so, I can't really relate. Sounds like a nuisance 

[NVLeatherWorx]

55 minutes ago, Stetson912 said:

Oh, you mean you DONT like putting in 8 hours on a whatever-it-is and have someone ask to sell it for twice what they pay you for it which is a quarter of what you should/could get for it because of your noted and displayed craftsmanship and quality and then not being recognized for the work you've done in the first place? Hehe...

Sounds like my job... Stupid Walmart lol!

I bet it gets frustrating. I haven't had the privilege to sell much of what I make. I've only done a few things for sale for friends so, I can't really relate. Sounds like a nuisance 

You got it!  Bigger pain in the rear end than having your rectum removed.  

[Stetson912]

So my next question is, has anyone ever offered you fair compensation to sell your product? I would imagine that's fairly unheard of lol.

Maybe one day I'll have a product good enough people will want to try and rip me off too! Haha

[YinTx]

3 hours ago, JLSleather said:

No, I'm talking about those people who like that word "wholesale", as in you sell it to us at about 40-50%, and 'make it up' on the volume.  Uh.. no thanks-- if getting bent over is bad, then getting bent over a dozen times should theoretically be worse   

50% markup does seem a bit extreme.  Reminds me of the adage about losing $1 an item, and trying to make up for the loss with volume.  erm.. math?

Truth be told, I've mentioned to others I've thought about opening a store.  And immediately everyone wants to put their stuff in a store that I am only thinking about.  All kinds of stuff, not just leather.  I don't think I'd do that for free.  I think it would be nice to have a place for others that make leather goods to be able to display their stuff and get some visibility for their work, and they could make some sales. That's what sparked my interest in this topic.  If I had a store, and I thought your work was nice enough to put in there, and I contacted you about it, why would you get mad at me?   I'd think it was a bit of a compliment.  If you didn't want to, say so, no problem.  If you do, settle on terms you and the store agree upon.  If you can't agree, move on, no harm done.  All that said, what are good terms?  Or as Stetson912 says, what is fair?  

some $/month per item displayed?  $/item sold?  % of item sold? $/sqft/month of display space? some combination?

YinTx

[JLSleather]

4 hours ago, YinTx said:

 If I had a store, and I thought your work was nice enough to put in there, and I contacted you about it, why would you get mad at me? 

I wouldn't.  I'm not sure what I said that makes you think I was "mad" about any of it.  Generally, I just delete them and ignore.  If I get a couple close together in time, perhaps a mild irritation worth joking about on a forum somewhere ..  

[LumpenDoodle2]

There is other things out there that have an interesting 'take' on providing a selljng platform.   I used to sell on a forum based 'auction/shop', and when I first set it up, I added a bit to my prices to cover the site charges.   After all. I have a main webshop, so the forum based one was just an additional outlet.  To me,  it seemed sensible and good business practice to factor in additional charges

The owner gave me a row, and I had to sell my items at the same price as in my own shop.    Fair 'nuff, but a tad annoying that I was being dictated to over the prices of my own goods.

[veedub3]

This type of set up works well for me. My products are currently in 9 Brick and Mortar stores around the US. They are called Stockist.(If this is who you are referring to) Yes they pay a discounted price for my items, but they buy in bulk and pay upfront. I get a fair price for the discounted item because the item is priced to where I am happy with the deal, but once it is theirs, they can do what they want with it - not my issue anymore unless it hurts the brand.

This works out well for me because I would never be able to sell that much volume on my own. I have no real web presence and I hate Social Media. Facebook needs to be pushed off the nearest cliff (along with fidget spinners but that is a rant for another day.) I do use Instagram but I rarely post - maybe once or twice every few months and to get followers you need to be posting 3 to 4 times a day unless you buy followers and I just don't have the time nor the interest in doing that.  I did hire a person to do the Social Media work for me on a 6 months trial period, and although followers and sales increased, it was not even a fraction of the sales I get from placing my items with Stockist. 

My joy is in making the product, all the work I have to put into photographing the item, writing blurbs about the item, advertising, marketing, and social media, is like a second job all in itself, and I am simply not a fan of that - so I chose the Stockist route when it was presented to me. They buy the item from me and they do all the work to sell it - or not - either way, I have already been paid. The products placed in these stores are small leather goods, no weekenders, satchels, messengers, or totes - those along with other leather goods I sell at pop up shops around Atlanta.

For a large established brand, I am sure this makes no since at all, but for a small shop such as mine, it is a great way to get your product in front of people you may not be able to otherwise. It may not be worth it to everyone, but for me it is the perfect set-up.

 

Karina

[Rockoboy]

I tend to agree with weedub3 on this issue. If a person makes something and wants to sell it for $10, maybe they sell 4 per week.

If they can reasonably make and sell that item for $5, but sell 20 of them to 'stockists', the comparison is $40 per week alongside $100 per week.

The major consideration being the time factor to make 20 of the item. If the item is able to be turned out at the quality required and $100 covers material and pays for time taken, I believe it would be a good deal.

Not the least consideration being that it gets your brand out there, and hopefully people will come to you for one-off specials where better money can be made.

[JLSleather]

HEY.. I started out just to make a light-hearted comment we could get a kick out of.  But you make some points here ..

2 hours ago, veedub3 said:

hey pay a discounted price for my items, but they buy in bulk and pay upfront.

Pay upfront is an important part   If the "discount" is acceptable to you, that's all that matters.

2 hours ago, veedub3 said:

Facebook needs to be pushed off the nearest cliff (along with fidget spinners but that is a rant for another day.)

Letting the product speak for itself -- I like it!  WAY too much of that 'other crap' these days ... buy my stuff because it's sold at Jeff's, or Walmart, or Cabelas, whatever (which apparently is it's only value).  Remember those commercials... "as seen on tv .."

I've seen some people who are quite good at graphic design, web programming, "social" media (wake up, people, if they're selling something, it isn't 'social') .. but whose actual product was not good.  So, what do you do?  Go on about "as seen on Fakebook ..."   Yeah, amazing people still fall for that!

3 hours ago, veedub3 said:

They buy the item from me and they do all the work to sell it - or not - either way, I have already been paid.

And there you have it.  

I've sold houses I had a lot more work in than any bit of leather.  If the new owner decides to burn it down, that's up to them -- they can do what they want with it.  But if I'm selling, and you're buying, then WHY are we paying the realtor (store owner)?@!#  It isn't their house.  They didn't do the work.  So I'm not paying them. I don't hate 'em, but I'm not paying them.

 

[fredk]

Interesting discussion this

1.Not very long ago I was contacted by a 'craft' shop. The offer was I rent shelf space in their shop. They do the selling, packing and accounts. Rate was $5 per square foot of shelf per week, minimum 5 square feet for inside regular area, $10 per for main sales area, $15 per for premium area. The shop would take 10% of sales price per item to cover packing supplies. Seeemed a not too bad offer. I and #3 son checked it over. The shop was in the side part of a shopping centre [mall]. We watched it over a few weeks and did a clicker count on footfall. On the best of busy days it had three shoppers average, most days there were none, zilch, nada customers. On-line chat with other crafters, someof whom took up the offer. One sold one fabric handbag in 6 months, one sold a couple of bracelets in the same time. So, not a great place to sell from.

2. On a recent visit to a shop in Belfast to inquire about something I've ended up, perhaps, with an outlet for certain leather goods [not fetish ones - I don't do those] which I never in a lifetime reckoned there was a requirement for in N.I. I need to learn how to make these items - not hard - make them, get them to the shop owner. I think it'll be a wholesale sort of pricing deal. For him I need to keep prices low-ish but it promises to be a lead in to more and other leatherwork

[Stetson912]

I think it's one of those things that depends on your individual situation. Like myself, I don't have a name out there and am just a hobbyist. But if I wanted to get started building 'myself' as a brand then it may not be a bad idea to do some consignment or wholesale things especially once people find out they could ultimately get it cheaper directly from me. 

However, there are those (like JLS) I'm sure who have brand recognition so to say. So it isn't much worth it to buy into these types of things.

I see both sides here. I can see how it's beneficial to an up n comer trying to make a few bucks and may not have the volume that others do... and how it's annoying to someone already established having people trying to poach them for their product when they don't or can't fully understand just how much effort goes into making a professional looking product.

I thought poaching was illegal? Hehehe I kid of course, just trying to get back to the light hearted side of this post

[JLSleather]

1 hour ago, Stetson912 said:

to get started building 'myself' as a brand then it may not be a bad idea to do some consignment or wholesale things

Actually, I think the reverse is true -- selling "through" someone else is likely to do LESS for your name than selling it yourself.  On the face, someone "helping" you may seem like an okay idea.  Say you sell something through "Jeff's store".

But people like it, or they don't.

IF they don't, most will move on and not think about it again -- just another something they bought that turned out not to be what they thought it would be.

IF they do like it, or maybe their buddy likes it, and they want more -- where do they go?  They go "to Jeff's" - that's where you get those.  Anybody see an issue here?

Edited May 29, 2017 by JLSleather

[Stetson912]

Ah I see. That's a good point you can tell I don't do much selling of things haha. That does make perfect sense though.

[YinTx]

3 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Actually, I think the reverse is true -- selling "through" someone else is likely to do LESS for your name than selling it yourself.  On the face, someone "helping" you may seem like an okay idea.  Say you sell something through "Jeff's store".

But people like it, or they don't.

IF they don't, most will move on and not think about it again -- just another something they bought that turned out not to be what they thought it would be.

IF they do like it, or maybe their buddy likes it, and they want more -- where do they go?  They go "to Jeff's" - that's where you get those.  Anybody see an issue here?

So so.  Yes, for sure, if the maker hasn't put his maker's mark on the item, and doesn't have an online presence for folks when they go looking.

And if the maker starts selling a lot of items through "Jeff's" and isn't happy about that, he/she can certainly cease, or renegotiate terms.  This flexibility probably aught to be in the original agreement.  Just thinking out loud here.

and as a side note, I don't think this is a "heavy topic," just one I find pretty interesting.  I am enjoying the topic, as I find it informative both on how I would consider  handling either selling my items through someone else, or how I would handle selling other's items.  Good to know the pro's, and con's, of each side of the deal.  What better place than this to get so many differing viewpoints!

YinTx

[JLSleather]

4 hours ago, nstarleather said:

you get into trouble if you when people want to do business without any "skin in the game."

Yeah, this is really what I was referring to.

Well, I was just unwinding in a slightly silly way -- really didn't intend to suggest to the next guy that he should or should not work with someone else.  Not my business equals none of my business   But if something was gained from the conversation, even better!

Crazy ride there for a while... moving, selling houses (more than one), buying houses, getting taxes submitted (though not "filed"), getting kids in schools (more than one kid and more than one school), insurance and driver licenses and vehicle registrations and .... phew   Getting back to work will be like a vacation.