Singer 45K68

[Davidmadd]

Hi everyone. I recently obtained a Singer 45K68 and have just got to the point of trying it out but I am seeking advice on a couple of things.

The first is how to thread it to create top stitch tension. I'll hopefully post a photo or two but in essence this machine does not have the lower tension arrangement.  I don't mean its missing, it just seems to never had one fitted in the first place.  I have got it to stitch but only by tightening the thread spool down on its sprung hubs but am sure this cannot be the proper means of tensioning it.

The second point:- Should the presser foot lifting lever have the the acute bend in it.  It doesn't look as its been bent accidentally.

I've included a picture of the drive motor.  I have spent quite some time trying to develop a means of utilising an old DC Treadmill Motor to drive this and other machines.  I'm just about there with it and can start the machine from nil revs to very slow in a controlled manner, bringing it up to speed and slowly back again to suit the stitching being carried out.  I've made a rudimentary foot pedal with quite a bit of travel and adjusted the control box so that the max speed is far less than is possible but is fast enough for me.  This then gives me the full pedal range to get for o revs to to my chosen max.  

Just an aside:-  I thought it sounded quite a bit noisier than the clutch motors I have been practising with, that is until I removed my hearing aids (I'm of a certain age!) It seems my bionic ears were picking up on the frequency of the motor, having brushes I was getting every crackle and buzz amplified in each ear.  It was an easy fix, I just removed them and got the normal hum of a DC motor 

[Darren Brosowski]

If the foot lift lever works then it is OK but to me it looks as if it is in backwards!

 

 

[Constabulary]

the 45K68 was designed as a sole stitcher machine AKAIK so it may be different to other 45K´s. I actually never have seen one live so I don´t know the difference in particular but when you look at the parts list it may help you. Seems the lever is designed that way

have attached the parts list

45K 68 69 71.pdf

EDIT:

poor quality PDF as I had to compress is the linked one is better:

http://hensewfiles.com/PDFs/SINGER 45K68.pdf

Edited June 8, 2017 by Constabulary

[jimi]

Hi David, first you need to send more pictures of the machine if you could? i think on your class the bobbin was tensed on the spool holder with two cones and a spring. similar to a frobana/gritzner sole stitcher machine.                                                                                                   

then i think your presser foot bar is missing, that is a long flat bar same as the 29k models have. that fits into the square hole under your tension assembly. this machine below is the 45k69. i am not sure why it is not in the parts list, but there was a part "presser bar lifting bracket tension release" that screwed onto the same plate where the bar goes, with two screws, and it held open the tension disks when the foot was raised letting you pull the thread out after sewing to cut. #91592 in this book for the 45k89.

                            

the bend in the arm is normal. this was the foot that was used with this needle plate and feed dog. not the #91034 you have on it. by the looks of the decals on your machine might be around 1920´s?? regards jimi.

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by jimi

[Davidmadd]

Hi Jimi

Thank you very much for your response re my 45K68. You are spot on I'm sure. The stitching that I did could only be achieved by tensioning the thread via the reel on the sprung hub as per picture.

I noted that the presser bar flat spring was missing and I sent in a previous post to ask for help identifying what it did and, if possible, for any critical dimensions. I didn't get any responses to that one!

I do have a Singer 29K4 and this one also has the presser bar flat spring missing.  I have bought a length of suitable ground flat bar and will make new springs but may well decide to send it away for tempering once I have shaped them!

I see also your comment about a bar which, on lifting the presser bar lever, would separate the tension discs.  Now on my machine there are no tension discs. What looks like a pair of tension discs are actually one solid pulley wheel and the thread wont go down in between them.  This was puzzling me as there is an adjusting screw and a tension spring, but I cant understand what it is supposed to do.  If I tighten the spring the thread just skids over the surface of the pulley groove and it therefore doesn't provide any tensioning.  If there were two tension discs I can understand how the missing bar would work.  The answer may well be for me to obtain some of the larger tensioning discs and substitute them for the pulley wheel. I will then try and craft the missing pointed bar!

I attach a few more photos.  In one of them you will note the gas pipe connection for heating the thread when it was wax coated to make waterproof seams (I think that is what it was for!)

I checked the Serial number and this machine was made in 1912!

As its been around for so long I'm not surprised that it may have one or two modifications from new.  I think the presser foot fitted is possible a bit more versatile than the original.

I have set the stitch length to max but it only seems to be about 1/4" long which seems on the small side to me.  It will go a lot smaller.  Maybe having the presser bar flat spring missing, there is insufficient pressure on the material to move it the full movement of the feed dog.

This is the latest of my collection of industrial Singers and probably the last one I will acquire as I'm running out of room.  I have a 111W154; a 111G155; two 132k6 although one is totally stripped down and awaits re-assembly.  I have a 29K4 in a similar condition.  I have two 31K15; one 31K47.  A post feed 51W54.  Then I have three 201Ks and another 12 or so domestic machines.  I spend so much time working on these that I get little time to actually sew anything but have been playing with some leather with a view to making something useful, but I must perfect my sewing skills first.  That was the reason for spending some time in developing the DC Motor drive.  It will allow me to get a really slow stitch speed.  I'm designing tables such that I can swap machines around all driven by the DC motor. I think the 111W154 or the 111G155 are probably the best machines.  The 31K47 is also very useful.  I have fitted a wheel feed to one of the 31K15s for tight corners and the other one is standard!!

Once again many thanks for your very helpful response.

Best Regards

[jimi]

Of course david! that is why there is no part to open the disks!! it should have dawned on me could you do a close up of your needle plate? in the manual it says 1 1/2 times around the wheel. i have seen this on other machines (not 45k´s) that when a wheel is present you have to go around it 1 1/2 times. that gives you more tension. and yes if there is no pressure on the foot then it wont feed properly. i have a 45k21 and like to do the same (try to sew and practice) and depending on your foot and feed dog relation you can find a big difference in stitch length. i think there was also a solution box which you can see in the parts manual which was for the bobbin thread i think. that would be for waxing it as it was wound on the bobbin and then the spirit box was linked to the shuttle area which you heated up to soften the waxed thread for easier sewing. the problem with the old machines is parts, and your machine has a flat plate which is not sold anymore. so if you wanted to get it going well you would have to make a plate up and find some feed dogs or make them also to mach the plate. the good thing is being flat is a lot easier than finding and making a curved one to match. will do some pictures...

[jimi]

[Constabulary]

you have to run the thread between the discs not on top of them.... That may help a bit already...

Edited June 8, 2017 by Constabulary

[jimi]

it is the wheel folker, not the disks. this class has no disks.

[jimi]

Here is a botch job of the needle plate that would have been on your machine David. this foot would not move the material..

 

this one did...

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by jimi

[Constabulary]

ha ha - and again I have learned something So I better shut up here 

@ David - so forget my message regarding the disc splitter seems you don´t need it.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Constabulary

[jimi]

 no problem folker, it is always good to hear peoples opinions. by the way i have the parts book for this machine, how do i get it up in one pdf??

[jimi]

There is one on Ebay right now David, you might be able to ask the owner about the size and thickness of the bar??

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Industrial-Architectural-Singer-45k-Sewing-Machine-Can-Deliver-/152515176398?hash=item23829ce7ce:g:MrYAAOSwB-1YpZjC

[Davidmadd]

Thanks for all the input from everybody! Jimi, I have spotted that one listed on eBay, it has been there on and off for some time. I did contact the seller asking for some dimensions but got no response. I will take some photos tomorrow of the needle plate and feed dog. Somewhat different from the ones you posted. So my machine relies on the thread wrapping around the tension wheel a couple of times (like a windlass) and therefore there is no release of tension on the upper thread when removing material? I did get that by wrapping it around twice but the bonded nylon thread, being a bit slippy, just pulled around the wheel and still didn't create tension. I think if I seriously want to use it and to make it versatile, I might change the v wheel for two discs.

Will send photos soon.

Many thanks

David

[RockyAussie]

3 hours ago, Constabulary said:

ha ha - and again I have learned something So I better shut up here 

@ David - so forget my message regarding the disc splitter seems you don´t need it.

Still maybe something to consider tho. I can remember with one  Frobana I had and wanting to use it without wax and with nylon or poly thread, I put in a separate set of tension discs off some old Singer and it worked beautifully. It gave way better control of the tension adjustment in that way. The double tooth feed foot reminds me of the foot for rubber soles as there is also one with a single spike and blade which puts a bit of pre hole for the needle and a slice into the dampened leather to allow the stitching to bury and be hidden.I don't think a lot of these slippery type threads were around when they designed these machines.Regards Brian

[Davidmadd]

Hi to all responders re my 45K68.

Jimi asked for more photos re the Needle plate and feed dog so here they are.

It appears that my machine has been converted from a dedicated Sole stitcher to a more general purpose machine utilising larger feed dogs and needle plate and whatever goes on underneath them. It is fitted with a V Washer type solid tension device which relies on friction from its side felt discs to create tension but I'm not sure how effective that will be with modern threads.  There doesn't appear to be any feature for slackening off the tension when the presser bar is lifted. As RockieAussie suggested the easiest way ahead may be to retro fit a typical thread tensioning device from another machine. This machine was originally fitted into a treadle and I did acquire the treadle flywheel and axle but thats all, no treadle table.  I will probably use it as a lamp stand base or some such device, it is large and heavy!!

I have been given a Parts List for this machine, thanks to members here and am delighted with the response from this enquiry, thank you all very much. I am much more knowledgeable about this machine than I was a few days ago, what a result!!!

 

[jimi]

Thanks for the pictures David. yes seems like it has been changed to a general 45k21 type now. this would be the common thing to happen when no more parts were available. the 45k21 still has the dogs and needle plates available ( copy´s) and can still be found around 2nd hand. there were surely more of the common type machines sold. i could be wrong but it dosn´t seem like there is much felt there? another thing that can happen is the disks end up wearing on the flat spot and end up spinning also. if this happens then there is no friction. if your feed dog is working fine then great, you might find a general type dog from the 45k89 might work good also as they were flat and not curved. flat being for their array of flat topped plates they had. what is the number on your foot david??   90751?  94751?  91751? so were you thinking of sewing soles on this or just general leather stuff??

Yes rocky, it does look similar to the frobana setup ? teeth for the rubber and the knife for the leather. the 45k71 had the two rows of slanted teeth and a small knife in a channel in the middle of the plate. i suppose it must have lifted with the foot each time and probably that is why it had two rows of teeth, to pull it through the leather and make the channel?? 

[jimi]

[jimi]

[jimi]

[jimi]

Here are some pictures of another 45k68 with a different setup. (sorry,the picture above referring to the flat bar was not a 45K69, it is the same one here)

Edited June 10, 2017 by jimi

[jimi]

if you look at the first picture above of the rusty one on the table with motor, you can see where it says singer there is a large score. well funny enough this is the same machine, sold on ebay then cleaned up. you can still see the same score where it says singer. the first tension assembly on the wax pot was taken away! then where the roller one was, a new disk type one installed. the flywheel put on back to front!! anyway just for references. that was the other plate which you can see in the parts book. the wax pot looks a bit shallower in the illustration but more or less the same. so i dont know why he took it off, having both tension units present?? as you can see this foot was slanted to match the slant of the needle plate and had one edge as a guide. (the right side) there is no knife here on this one so he either didnt bother making one or didnt know it used one. you can see in the picture that the foot was not used this way, that is why there is a dark line near the stitches. that is from the side guide on the foot, this was designed to be used on the edge of the sole. there is also a small flat type finger? for holding the thread leaving the both hands free. part nº91794 page 1001. you have in it`s place the normal guide plate base used on the 45k21s and so on. if you ever wanted to get hold of a treadle to use this with i would recommend holding on to the flywheel which came with it as these machines have three pullys on them instead of the normal two. so i doubt you would find another one of them around. 

[Constabulary]

9 minutes ago, jimi said:

if you ever wanted to get hold of a treadle to use this with i would recommend holding on to the flywheel which came with it as these machines have three pullys on them instead of the normal two. so i doubt you would find another one of them around. 

I have two standard 45K flywheels - if someone needs one

[Davidmadd]

Wow Jimi, an absolute wealth of information on the 45K68!!

I bought mine a few months ago on eBay as I saw it as the missing link in my collection of Singers.  I didn't particularly seek out a Sole Stitcher, it was just that it was it was the only one/cheapest one around for quite some time.  I studied the photos intently and got the seller to send me additional ones as I wanted something for general use rather that for Sole Stitching so was delighted to see that the presser foot and feed dog appeared to be "normal"  I particulary wanted the cylinder arm as I felt that my 31k6 could no doubt handle my flat bed needs.  In fact I'm looking at the upper primary tension device on the K6 as a good additional tensioning device for the 45k68.  I have contacted College Sewing to see if they have a pair of large tension discs that I can either utilise or fit as an additional unit.

You are right about there being no felt in the wheel tensioner.  I contacted British Felt to see if they could supply some industrial quality firm felt and they sent me ready cut discs but I have yet to fit them.

It is interesting to see and recognise other machines as they are bought and sold and more likely improved upon.  Are you the owner of the 45 with the scoredSinger??

Once again many thanks for the info and the displayed Parts List.  That must have taken some time to organise and it is greatly appreciated.

I will gradually enlarge the picture of the flat presser bar spring until it is the same length as I can determine from actual machine. It should then give me a good shape to copy for my missing one.

I have checked the part number on the presser foot and it is stamped 91751.

At the same time as mine was listed I was watching a 132K6, but the version with no feed dogs so it was a freehand machine.  There was lots missing so I let it pass but not before contacting the seller as in some photos the Bobbin and bobbin holder were displayed and in some they were not.  I asked if they were included and was told No they are not.  I suggested he makes that clear in the listing or removed the photo showing them, as I would have been extremely disappointed to find these quite rare and expensive parts missing.

Best Regards

David

[jimi]

You are welcome David. and no the scored 45k68 singer is not my machine, i own a 45k1,21,99 and 92. the measurements in the parts book seem to be pretty close so if you needed to make parts you could get a rough idea of its size. just looked and the bar is half size on this page and measures 143mm long 8mm widest at the back and 5mm at the front where it fits into the square hole, so double that and you should be pretty close. i would try one in cardboard first then grind down your bar to fit. here is the user manual for the 45k flat bed type which might come in handy.

if you come across the flat top feed dogs for the 45k89 nº 91576 i think it is, that might give you max feed for your flat plate setup. luckily you are in the UK and 99% of the 45k89´s turn up in the UK so there should be parts flying around there somewhere?? if you need the parts list and numbers let me know david, i can take some shots and upload them also as i saw the copy uploaded before was hard to see in some pages. i am sure when you get the felt or thin leather on the tension assembly and the thread wound on, you will get the tension desired. i will upload a couple of pictures for curiosity´s sake of the frobana setup rockyaussie was talking about, you will see the similitude. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by jimi