dikman What machine should I go for

[Ballu]

Hi all, Iam from India and Iam new to leather stiching, Iam using a 31k15 for all my works(backpacks, sling bags.etc) I use heavy canvas and leather, Iam pushing 31k to its limits,hence Iam going for an up grade, so now I have to choose between two options 1) brother ls2b837 and 2) adler durkoff walking foot lock stich, but the second one is three times more expensive, also it in beter condition than Ls2, so what do you guy's think I should go for, my needs are - should sew through thick material -should be able to use heavy thread- and should be with less mentenenc. Thanks all in advance, waiting for your reply 

[Ballu]

Anyone reply please, the durkoff is 267

[dikman]

Ballu, be patient regarding replies as you may have to wait overnight for answers due to time differences. I don't know anything about those machines other than a google search, but the Adler is considered a very good machine from what I can find out. Either would be better than what you've got as they're both walking foot.

You need to define what you mean by heavy thread? Up to #138 or heavier? If heavier then you will likely need a bigger machine than these.

[Ballu]

Hi dikman thanks for the reply, 138 thread is alright for my work. 

[brmax]

Im not yet familar with the brother machine yet, the other 267 is interesting.

Curious on the Durkopp, what is the other number part ( 267-373) possibly. As I understand the older ones are probably much better, being made in Germany.

As mentioned the 267 is very good quality and very expensive as I understand.

While looking around I see the brother can really sew fast and this describes to me it must be balanced very well for this style machine.  It has an 8mm max stitch length, Wow!.  I noticed in description it has a oil pump, so if its been taken care of this in my mind can be a great machine for you. I would like and need to hear more about the oil system, as these are really capable for fast sewing I question myself can it still oil as well sewing very slow.  This has been discussed before on many others. And for that matter the other machine may have a oil pump also. So if either has been taken care of well they should be a great machine.

 

good day there

Floyd

[Wizcrafts]

The oil pump situation that Floyd referred to is that some machines have an oil pump on the bottom of the machine that sits in an oil pan and forcibly sucks up oil and pushes it to wicks along the top and bottom of the machine. These machines usually need to be run very fast to get oil to the extremities.This generates a lot of heat and makes for a hard to control machine that may have a 1:1 motor pulley to machine pulley ratio. Failure to maintain a proper oil pan level, or only sewing at slow speeds can lead to damage to the machine, as can be noted in the sticky topic about Venator's Adler 467 that seized due to a bad oil wick system.

The rest of the machines have oil holes that the operator has to fill with fresh oil every now and then. These machines are not usually run at very high speeds and don't generate as much heat as a high speed garment machine. You can sew at very slow speeds with these machines as long as you place a few drops of oil into all the oil holes before or after  using the machine or letting it sit a while. The machine will leak a little oil that you'll have to wipe off the lower surfaces to avoid soiling your materials.

If you are planning to sew at slow speeds, buy the manually oiled machine, if it is still in good sewing condition.

[Constabulary]

If the Brother has a large capacity hook just as the Durkopp 267 I would choose the Brother. Why? Because it is a Singer 211 based model and parts and accessories (like different presser feet) are available almost everywhere and they fare fairly cheap. You can also use a lot of Singer 111 (predecessor of the 211) parts and accessories. If the machines are set up to factory standards the sewing capacity should be approx. the same compared with the 267.

But if you don´t mind please post detailed pictures of either machines because machines can be set up with different "bells & whistles" and to compare them some more information than just the model name would be helpful. Condition, accessories and motor also matters. What are the prices the seller is asking for?

[Ballu]

Hi constabulary thank you for your reply, these are the pics of adler durkoff and the Ls2,       seller is selling adler for 30000inr (aprox--500 usd), and the Ls2 for almost 150 usd, the adler is in good condition with motor and table, Ls2 does not look very good in working order but some parts missing.

 

12 hours ago, brmax said:

Im not yet familar with the brother machine yet, the other 267 is interesting.

Curious on the Durkopp, what is the other number part ( 267-373) possibly. As I understand the older ones are probably much better, being made in Germany.

As mentioned the 267 is very good quality and very expensive as I understand.

While looking around I see the brother can really sew fast and this describes to me it must be balanced very well for this style machine.  It has an 8mm max stitch length, Wow!.  I noticed in description it has a oil pump, so if its been taken care of this in my mind can be a great machine for you. I would like and need to hear more about the oil system, as these are really capable for fast sewing I question myself can it still oil as well sewing very slow.  This has been discussed before on many others. And for that matter the other machine may have a oil pump also. So if either has been taken care of well they should be a great machine.

 

good day there

Floyd

brmax, yes this adler is german made 

[Ballu]

11 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The oil pump situation that Floyd referred to is that some machines have an oil pump on the bottom of the machine that sits in an oil pan and forcibly sucks up oil and pushes it to wicks along the top and bottom of the machine. These machines usually need to be run very fast to get oil to the extremities.This generates a lot of heat and makes for a hard to control machine that may have a 1:1 motor pulley to machine pulley ratio. Failure to maintain a proper oil pan level, or only sewing at slow speeds can lead to damage to the machine, as can be noted in the sticky topic about Venator's Adler 467 that seized due to a bad oil wick system.

The rest of the machines have oil holes that the operator has to fill with fresh oil every now and then. These machines are not usually run at very high speeds and don't generate as much heat as a high speed garment machine. You can sew at very slow speeds with these machines as long as you place a few drops of oil into all the oil holes before or after  using the machine or letting it sit a while. The machine will leak a little oil that you'll have to wipe off the lower surfaces to avoid soiling your materials.

If you are planning to sew at slow speeds, buy the manually oiled machine, if it is still in good sewing condition.

Hi wizcrafts,  I was about to ask that,  I wont be stiching at very high speeds, will that be a problem,  

On my 31k Iam used to stich all my leather hand crancked

Thanks for your reply. 

[Wizcrafts]

14 minutes ago, Ballu said:

Hi wizcrafts,  I was about to ask that,  I wont be stiching at very high speeds, will that be a problem,  

On my 31k Iam used to stich all my leather hand crancked

Thanks for your reply. 

It could be a problem with a self oiling machine, but not a manually oiled model. Some folks with self oilers will unthread and run them at full speed before sewing commences. This pushes the oil around the extremities so that there is oil where it needs to be as you sew slowly. You normally wind bobbins on an industrial sewing machine as you sew. But, intentionally winding a bobbin at full speed is another way to distribute the oil.

Be sure you are able to try out these machines before you commit to buying one of them. Go with the one that you feel better about as you sit in front and press the floor pedal. Is the motor speed controllable? Can you sew slowly, or is it off to the races? If so, you'll likely need to buy a servo motor replacement.

[Constabulary]

Well - the optical condition and missing parts at the Brother makes me change my mind... Still not much information for making a decision but from the pictures I see I would most likely go with the 267 and add a servo motor (looks like it has a clutch motor) - $500 is a very good price for a 267. If the Brother is not complete its most likely not complete for a reason - I´d consider it as a restoration project - at least from what the picture tells.

Wasn´t the 267 the last w/o a oil pump in the x67 series? Not sure...

As Wiz said - test sew the machines when ever possible!

Also - check the condition of the timing belts - when they are brittle, cracked, have missing teeth or seem to be very worn better do not buy the machine - replacing timing belts is not the funniest work you can do on a sewing machine. It can be a real pain ITA.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Constabulary

[Ballu]

On 12/09/2017 at 10:20 PM, Wizcrafts said:

It could be a problem with a self oiling machine, but not a manually oiled model. Some folks with self oilers will unthread and run them at full speed before sewing commences. This pushes the oil around the

Wiz, I will definitely try both machines before buying, thanks for reply. 

[Ballu]

23 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Well - the optical condition and missing parts at the Brother makes me change my mind... Still not much information for making a decision but from the pictures I see I would most likely go with the 267 and add a servo motor (looks like it has a clutch motor) - $500 is a very good price for a 267. If the Brother is not complete its most likely not complete for a reason - I´d consider 

Yes constabulary the optical condition is not pleasing, and for the missing parts the guy says he intentionally disassembled the machin and he is having them all, surely I'll try both the machines and also will look for cracked or damaged timing belts, I'll revert back once I get my hands on the machines , thanks for reply 

[Ballu]

Hi guys how are you doing, I finally got the adler it is a 267-373, it is running quite well, but, I bargained it to 350 dollars front 500.i have some questions, 

1) should the middle walking foot touch bottom feed dog when the lever is down, because while turning the wheel the machine poses some resistance when the foot touches bottom feed dog. 

2) I am not sure if it is auto oiled or manual, the previous owner use to put oil in 2-3 location on top and some location at bottom and in the bobin

.If it's manually oiled then how much oil should I poure 

3) when I tested the machine it was having two tension adjusters one small at top and a bigger at middle of machine, but I lost the smaller one at top in transport, the machine is still sewing good, I want to know will it be a problem using only one adjuster. 

 

Thanks all. 

[R8R]

2 hours ago, Ballu said:

Hi guys how are you doing, I finally got the adler it is a 267-373, it is running quite well, but, I bargained it to 350 dollars front 500.i have some questions, 

1) should the middle walking foot touch bottom feed dog when the lever is down, because while turning the wheel the machine poses some resistance when the foot touches bottom feed dog. 

2) I am not sure if it is auto oiled or manual, the previous owner use to put oil in 2-3 location on top and some location at bottom and in the bobin

.If it's manually oiled then how much oil should I poure 

3) when I tested the machine it was having two tension adjusters one small at top and a bigger at middle of machine, but I lost the smaller one at top in transport, the machine is still sewing good, I want to know will it be a problem using only one adjuster. 

 

Thanks all. 

Nice machine for a nice price!

1) Yes the center foot should make contact with the feed dogs, this is the unison feed feature (needle + foot + feed dog) all feed the materials together. The outer foot holds the materials in place for a brief moment. If there is a great deal of resistance, the timing may be off. There should be some resistance you will feel with the handwheel though.

2) On just about any/all industrial machines, if auto-oiled there would be a pan mounted underneath with a removable drain plug and some indication of low and high oil level markings. If manually oiled, maybe a simple catch pan underneath and many oil port holes on top and around the machine surfaces. When in doubt, add at least several drops to each port, and open up the machine and add oil to any and all moving parts that make contact with each other. Pivots, bushings, bearings, connectors, etc, oil them all. Use a little extra when first oiling and wipe away any excess. Use ONLY clear sewing oil, made for sewing machines. Any other oil will gunk it up.

TIP - and this applies to all machines, everywhere - keep it very clean. Dust, dirt, lint etc on the outside all make it into moving parts eventually, and sewing oil can quicken that process. Keep things clean and well oiled and it will last a lifetime.

3) Maybe you mean the tension adjuster knob for the bobbin winder? The thread should wrap though this tension disk assembly first before going to the bobbin. The machine will run without it, but properly winding bobbins will be difficult.

 

See this vid - the top center knob adjusts the foot pressure. The small knob is on the bobbin winder tensioner (with the red thread running through it to the bobbin winder)

 

[Ballu]

Hi R8R thanks for a quick reply 

The tension assembly for bobin was already missing, Iam talking about the small round knob directly above the main tension knob,was that something very important. 

And about the foot resistance,   when hand crancked every thing runs smoothly for some rotations then all of a sudden it offers resistance some times small and some times too much,  the machine was sitting for almost 7-8 months will that be a problem,  also a tiny piece of thread Is tangled below the bobin assembly and it's not coming out, I don't have the guts to disassemble the bobin assembly. 

Thanks 

 

 

[Constabulary]

The tension unit on top for the bobbin winder is a quite cheap part you don´t need original Adler part here. I put one of these on top of by BUSMC #6 bobbin winder

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/store/SB3571-1-01-BOBBIN-WINDER-TENSION-ASSY-BROTHER

College sewing could be a good spare parts source for you anyway.

Hope this help with your hook. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Constabulary

[Ballu]

Hi R8R, and constabulary your advice helped a lot, after some oiling and cleaning the machine is running good, I opened the top lid and didn't find any oil tank or pump, so Iam guessing it is manually oiled,

One more question for you guys,, what is heaviest thread I can use with this machine,,, it is a Da k267-373

Thanks