Problem sewing multiple layers with 211g165

[jrbeasley]

Hi. I'm sewing straps to a panel and generally this works fine. But sometimes one strap passes over another so the total thickness being sewn is 3 layers and this creates problems. The feet step over the thickness fine, and it's within the limits of the machine, but the stitch quality is bad. The stitches are okay on the step up, but across the top of the 3 layers the stitches become tighter/closer together. And stepping back down to two layers the back of the outer foot appears to stay at the level of the highest layer for a few stitches while the inner foot seems to float in the air a little. While this is happening the stitches are very dodgy -- long stitches, loose stitches, leather lifts up, thread sometimes acts like it might break -- for 3-5 stitches until thing straighten out and stitches are great again.

I can get an almost acceptable stitches on the top (3 layers thick) by slightly pulling the material through the machine. But I can't do anything about the problem stepping down. For now, I'm pulling the material slightly while sewing over the crossing strap, removing the thread from the needle to just punch holes while going back down to 2 layers, and reinserting the top thread to finish the run. Then I go back and manually repair the mess, but this takes a while and the results are inconsistent.

Anyone aware of adjustments I can make or maybe a different technique? Thanks in advance!   

    

[Tejas]

For sewing over difficult changes in layers, I use a jean-a-ma-jig or presser-foot spacers, aka hump-jumpers.

Sew up to the hump, and with the needle buried raise the foot and insert the spacer behind the needle and manually sew up onto the hump. Sew across the hump. To sew off of the hump, while still on the hump raise the foot with the needle buried, insert the spacer in front of the needle and sew over the drop-off before removing the spacer. Manually climb the hump, over short humps and off the hump.

https://www.amazon.com/Dritz-Jean-Majig-Sewing-Product/dp/B005572NPS/ref=sr_1_2?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1506068841&sr=1-2&keywords=jean-a-ma-jig

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Tejas

[RockyAussie]

7 hours ago, jrbeasley said:

Hi. I'm sewing straps to a panel and generally this works fine. But sometimes one strap passes over another so the total thickness being sewn is 3 layers and this creates problems. The feet step over the thickness fine, and it's within the limits of the machine, but the stitch quality is bad. The stitches are okay on the step up, but across the top of the 3 layers the stitches become tighter/closer together. And stepping back down to two layers the back of the outer foot appears to stay at the level of the highest layer for a few stitches while the inner foot seems to float in the air a little. While this is happening the stitches are very dodgy -- long stitches, loose stitches, leather lifts up, thread sometimes acts like it might break -- for 3-5 stitches until thing straighten out and stitches are great again.

I can get an almost acceptable stitches on the top (3 layers thick) by slightly pulling the material through the machine. But I can't do anything about the problem stepping down. For now, I'm pulling the material slightly while sewing over the crossing strap, removing the thread from the needle to just punch holes while going back down to 2 layers, and reinserting the top thread to finish the run. Then I go back and manually repair the mess, but this takes a while and the results are inconsistent.

Anyone aware of adjustments I can make or maybe a different technique? Thanks in advance!   

    

I think if you could post a picture of the work and the feet close in could help. I think I understand the problem but would like to see it before possibly leading you wrongly. It may not be practical but would it work to spin the job around and tackle it in reverse? Shorter jump off point to go over I'm thinking and no back foot to hold it up then. Brian

[Uwe]

Make sure you have maximum alternating foot lift dialed in when you have to make big steps up and down. The alternating foot lift adjustment is described on pages 22/23 of the Singer 211G165 Service manual. Many leatherworkers adjust their machine for maximum alternating foot lift and never change it after that.

Normally, both feet are adjusted to lift an equal height as they walk. In some instances it makes sense to purposely make the alternating foot lift uneven to allow the machine to take a bigger step up or down. For a big step down, you actually want to make the rear presser foot lift higher than the inner walking foot (it may sound counter-intuitive, but it works).

Taking a big step down is often harder than stepping up. ,This is because it takes just one step/stitch to step up, but usually takes several step/stitches to step down again from a ledge (until the rear presser foot clears the high part.)

The rear presser foot only lifts up if the inner walking foot presses down on the material. If the inner walking foot cannot step down far enough to press against the material the rear presser foot will not lift up and the material will not advance properly.

[Tejas]

Here is a thread on similar subject.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/62249-sewing-through-thick-spots-with-juki-1541s/

 

[jrbeasley]

Thanks everyone. Uwe, I went through the maximum foot height adjustment again but it was already there.

The foot I'm using is for edging, it has a spring and a small edge guide. It's relatively long front-to-back so the "heel" is pretty far back from the needle. It looks like this problem would be unavoidable with this design.

For now I found a technique that seems to work. On the last stitch through 3 layers I stop needle-down, loosen the tension a full turn, run 3-4 stitches so the heel of the foot is clear of the 3 layers, then re-tighten tension a full turn and continue on. I want to get more practice to make sure it's consistent but it's worked for about 10 tests. And  I have an extra edging foot that I will try to grind away the heel some and see if that helps. Finally I'm looking at other edge guides, though I really like how this one works otherwise.

Thanks again!

[JessH]

On 22/09/2017 at 9:31 AM, Tejas said:

For sewing over difficult changes in layers, I use a jean-a-ma-jig or presser-foot spacers, aka hump-jumpers.

Sew up to the hump, and with the needle buried raise the foot and insert the spacer behind the needle and manually sew up onto the hump. Sew across the hump. To sew off of the hump, while still on the hump raise the foot with the needle buried, insert the spacer in front of the needle and sew over the drop-off before removing the spacer. Manually climb the hump, over short humps and off the hump.

https://www.amazon.com/Dritz-Jean-Majig-Sewing-Product/dp/B005572NPS/ref=sr_1_2?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1506068841&sr=1-2&keywords=jean-a-ma-jig

 

What a brilliant idea, though looking at the item on eby/Az I think it will be easy enough to make one, those with thick leather scraps available could cut very posh ones out of saddle leather? Now then..... I wonder which of my belts I could shorten to get a little piece of thick leather?

[Tejas]

Probably easy to make. The presser foot spacers I mentioned came as a set in various thicknesses. However, the seller's link is no longer valid.