Need some advice on creating this border

[Bustrod]

Looking for some advice on how to create a border like this. Mainly on what stamps to use and where to find them. The project is a large leather-topped desktop so hoping to figure out some way of keeping the stamping simple as its going around a large area. Also would love any advise on where to find any flowing vine/leaf pattern stamps in general (as in example 3).

Thanks in advance.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Bustrod

[mikesc]

I think those ( the gold parts ) are probably rollers.

The last one looks to be the "plants" for each part of the UK, Rose , Shamrock, Thistle, Leek. looks to be a roller overlap at the corner.

The inner one also looks to be a roller, with a combination spot stamp in the corners featuring the Prince of Wales three feathers.

The dark brown edge on the lower one could well be a hot roller with no "leaf" applied. the edge on the upper one ? combination of Roller for the long "straights" and individual stamps to get around the curved corners.

[Rockoboy]

Go to the For sale section, look in Hand tools Stamping section, the blokes name is arbelet12.

I bought some of his stamps, which are really good. I believe you will find what you looking for in his catalogue.

[Rossr]

Perhaps it was an embosing wheel on the edges the non gold part? 

 

https://www.csosborne.com/no459.htm

 

https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/craftool-embossing-wheels

 

These are on a book binders tool site...not sure they can be used on leather but maybe those?   No idea how they are used

http://www.talasonline.com/Decorative-Brass-Wheels-and-Pallets  

 

 

Ross

[mikesc]

"embossing wheel"..that's what I meant by "roller" above..the name escaped me at the time..

[Bustrod]

Thanks guys for all the info and recommendations. Rossr, Talasonline.com may be exactly what I'm looking for. May try and order a few rollers in the next few days and will update once I get to try something out.

[Rossr]

11 hours ago, mikesc said:

I think those ( the gold parts ) are probably rollers.

The last one looks to be the "plants" for each part of the UK, Rose , Shamrock, Thistle, Leek. looks to be a roller overlap at the corner.

The inner one also looks to be a roller, with a combination spot stamp in the corners featuring the Prince of Wales three feathers.

The dark brown edge on the lower one could well be a hot roller with no "leaf" applied. the edge on the upper one ? combination of Roller for the long "straights" and individual stamps to get around the curved corners.

Mike If I understand correct they heat the roller and then lay down gold leaf or something?  Roll it on that way.   I would guess you keep it straight by laying a ruler or some template down?     Curious if you know how....

 

2 hours ago, Bustrod said:

Thanks guys for all the info and recommendations. Rossr, Talasonline.com may be exactly what I'm looking for. May try and order a few rollers in the next few days and will update once I get to try something out.

Glad it helped.....amazing what is out there on the net and how much information we all have at our fingertips...:)

[mikesc]

More or less that way, yes, on some surfaces you'd put a "size" ( sort of glue ) to get the gold leaf to hold on ,place the guide ( like a ruler which in some cases the embossing wheel clips onto, push or pull it along, the gold gets stuck to the size , which in turn sticks to the leather, combination of pressure on the rollers and the glue effect of the size )..If you aren't using real gold ( can use hot foil which is polyester with metallic foil which has a backing that will stick with heat ) then it is easier..Principal is the same though.

I seem to remember seeing a system in the past that would lay the hot foil along just in front of the hot roller ( lot of different pattern roller wheels available ) and it came with various guides available.

It can be done with templates ( which will get you the curves ) but you'd need to be doing a lot of the same size to make having the template system made in curves worthwhile..the shorter the repeat", the easier it is to make curves, the diameter of the roller is smaller on a short "repeat" and so can do a tighter radius curve.

The corner details and end details can be done with bookbinding tools, or even old letterpress printers decorations..even used to be able to find decorative rulers and guides and "blocks" for letterpress printers which could be used in a pinch for hot foil or gilding work.

When you do any embossing with real gold, you rub the gold off ( and recover it for sending back to the leaf supplier, who will credit you with the value )..Burnishing is done ( traditionally ) by rubbing with a wolf's tooth burnisher , or an agate burnisher*, a dogs tooth will work just as well as a wolf's tooth. That will get you a shiny surface..to have a satin surface ( warmer to look at ) go over again with a soft cotton lint free cloth.

You'd use an agate burnisher more to do things like 3D surfaces , picture frames, sculptures and so on..Lot of gold leaf sculptures are actually wooden sculptures with a smoothed gesso layer all over and then coloured grounds ( boles ) followed by "size" onto which the gold leaf is then laid and burnished. Lots of different recipes for boles and sizes.

If talasonline ( I haven't looked at the link yet to see what they have ) have the rollers, ask them to supply ( if they have some rolls of hot foil , the polyester type )..use these to practice with before moving onto real gold ( mistakes while learning can get expensive with real gold foil )..if they don't have straight line guides ( or complete systems ) then you should be able to make something with some long straight edges ( the kind that picture framers use to make the "passe-partouts..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passe-partout

the cardboard cut outs that watercolour paintings are placed against the back of when they are framed before they are placed in their glass mounts ) ..these coloured card windows have "frame lines" added by hand for which you use long metal straight edges that lock ( via metal dowels ) into the framers bench / table..you can get these in 1 metre or sometimes even two metre lengths..( normally you'd stitck some sandpaper , fine grain onto the "contact side" to stop the cardboard sliding..

You can protect the leather surface from the contact side by placing strips of cardboard under the metal straight edges..

Practice lots before trying long straight lines , work up to them beginning with a line of a foot long and going up in 6 inch increments..
How you stand is important , you need to be making a smooth motion , parallel to the surface , from beginning to end of your lines , not an arc.

Practice even more before trying curves.

edited for typos ( I was typing fast whilst cooking..and my system underlines every word as "wrong" )..hope the above makes sense..I'll take a look at the talas site and see what they have later and if I can think of any "tips" I'll post again maybe tomorrow or later tonight my time ( 22.00 hrs here..dinner will be late ) ..:)

Edited January 3, 2018 by mikesc

[billybopp]

Those are usually done with embossing wheel and gold foil.   The wheels come up now and then on eBay.   Search bookbinding.

Bill

[Rossr]

7 hours ago, mikesc said:

More or less that way, yes, on some surfaces you'd put a "size" ( sort of glue ) to get the gold leaf to hold on ,place the guide ( like a ruler which in some cases the embossing wheel clips onto, push or pull it along, the gold gets stuck to the size , which in turn sticks to the leather, combination of pressure on the rollers and the glue effect of the size )..If you aren't using real gold ( can use hot foil which is polyester with metallic foil which has a backing that will stick with heat ) then it is easier..Principal is the same though.

I seem to remember seeing a system in the past that would lay the hot foil along just in front of the hot roller ( lot of different pattern roller wheels available ) and it came with various guides available.

It can be done with templates ( which will get you the curves ) but you'd need to be doing a lot of the same size to make having the template system made in curves worthwhile..the shorter the repeat", the easier it is to make curves, the diameter of the roller is smaller on a short "repeat" and so can do a tighter radius curve.

The corner details and end details can be done with bookbinding tools, or even old letterpress printers decorations..even used to be able to find decorative rulers and guides and "blocks" for letterpress printers which could be used in a pinch for hot foil or gilding work.

When you do any embossing with real gold, you rub the gold off ( and recover it for sending back to the leaf supplier, who will credit you with the value )..Burnishing is done ( traditionally ) by rubbing with a wolf's tooth burnisher , or an agate burnisher*, a dogs tooth will work just as well as a wolf's tooth. That will get you a shiny surface..to have a satin surface ( warmer to look at ) go over again with a soft cotton lint free cloth.

You'd use an agate burnisher more to do things like 3D surfaces , picture frames, sculptures and so on..Lot of gold leaf sculptures are actually wooden sculptures with a smoothed gesso layer all over and then coloured grounds ( boles ) followed by "size" onto which the gold leaf is then laid and burnished. Lots of different recipes for boles and sizes.

If talasonline ( I haven't looked at the link yet to see what they have ) have the rollers, ask them to supply ( if they have some rolls of hot foil , the polyester type )..use these to practice with before moving onto real gold ( mistakes while learning can get expensive with real gold foil )..if they don't have straight line guides ( or complete systems ) then you should be able to make something with some long straight edges ( the kind that picture framers use to make the "passe-partouts..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passe-partout

the cardboard cut outs that watercolour paintings are placed against the back of when they are framed before they are placed in their glass mounts ) ..these coloured card windows have "frame lines" added by hand for which you use long metal straight edges that lock ( via metal dowels ) into the framers bench / table..you can get these in 1 metre or sometimes even two metre lengths..( normally you'd stitck some sandpaper , fine grain onto the "contact side" to stop the cardboard sliding..

You can protect the leather surface from the contact side by placing strips of cardboard under the metal straight edges..

Practice lots before trying long straight lines , work up to them beginning with a line of a foot long and going up in 6 inch increments..
How you stand is important , you need to be making a smooth motion , parallel to the surface , from beginning to end of your lines , not an arc.

Practice even more before trying curves.

edited for typos ( I was typing fast whilst cooking..and my system underlines every word as "wrong" )..hope the above makes sense..I'll take a look at the talas site and see what they have later and if I can think of any "tips" I'll post again maybe tomorrow or later tonight my time ( 22.00 hrs here..dinner will be late ) ..:)

Mike thank you for taking the time to put up such a detailed explanation!

 

Ross