Singer 401A help please

[Sledzep01]

I read the other thread about the 301 and 401.

Nobody liked it for leather. Is that because of he type of leather you use.

So, I don't even know how to sew yet, I want to be able to sew some jeans, light canvas, and leather from couches and coats together occasionally

It is a hobby, I do not have a business, Hell I only just made my first stitching pony a week ago...

So will kit really not sew leather from an old couch onto some jeans. If it can do what these videos show I would be happy.

It will probably cost me under $75

video 1

video 2

 

[Wizcrafts]

That machine is fine for hobby/household sewing. It is certainly not a leather stitcher, per say. I wouldn't use it to sew any leather items for sale to customers.

 

[Yetibelle]

The Singer 301, 401a and 500a are decent machines, pick the 401a if you have the option.  Yes they are home machines and not walking foot leather machines, but they are a the last batch of Singer machines made with metal parts.  They are the first group of Singer machines to take the standard 15 needle, so you can get leather point needles at the fabric store and regular sewing thread and start to practice.  The down side is, your using regular thread and needles, so you wont be sewing very thick or hard leather.  If you have some time and a little more cash, look for a Singer 111 machine.  They can be found from $200-$500 and are a true leather machine and a great machine to learn sewing leather on. 

 

 

[rodneywt1180b]

The Singer 401 A is a good machine. One of the last really good domestic sewing machines Singer made.  All metal construction except one fiber gear.  I don't recall anyone having trouble with that gear though.  It's not intended for thick leather or a steady diet of leather.  You can probably get away with garment weight leather occasionally.

It uses Class 66 bobbins and 15x1 needles that are available pretty much everywhere. 

If you get it, make sure it sews first.  They can be a little finicky to work on.  They do decorative stitches and have a good range of built in stitches plus cams for even more.  You can download an instruction book from Singer's website if it doesn't have one.  I think having the book handy is necessary for that machine.  The controls aren't that intuitive.

I don't think any household machine is great for leather.  You're looking at smaller thread sizes and smaller stitch lengths than you can get on a leather machine.  If you're stuck with looking at domestic machines I would recommend looking for a Singer 66, 15, or 201.  They're all good machines, straight stitch only and sturdier than any zigzag model.  All of them use 15x1 needles.  Another choice would be an old White Rotary.  They're heavily built for a domestic machine and on par with Singer for quality.

 

[Wizcrafts]

For a while I was selling refurbished old iron body Singer sewing machines. The only ones I found suitable for sewing belt thickness leather were the models 27, 127, 28 and 128. They have tricky bobbins to wind, but easily handle #69 bonded thread, due to their oscillating bullet shuttle design. Any of these models could sew 5 stitches per inch into 9 ounces of bridle leather due to the aggressive teeth on the feed dogs.

[Sledzep01]

8 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

For a while I was selling refurbished old iron body Singer sewing machines. The only ones I found suitable for sewing belt thickness leather were the models 27, 127, 28 and 128. They have tricky bobbins to wind, but easily handle #69 bonded thread, due to their oscillating bullet shuttle design. Any of these models could sew 5 stitches per inch into 9 ounces of bridle leather due to the aggressive teeth on the feed dogs.

so they would just be singer 127... not 127### or something?

How old are these models, will they be one of those cool looking old black ones?

How about the white rotary? 

 

I am on shopgoodwill.com and see some of these.

There a million machines there in general

White rotary

singer

Edited January 16, 2018 by Sledzep01

[Sledzep01]

10 hours ago, Yetibelle said:

The Singer 301, 401a and 500a are decent machines, pick the 401a if you have the option.  Yes they are home machines and not walking foot leather machines, but they are a the last batch of Singer machines made with metal parts.  They are the first group of Singer machines to take the standard 15 needle, so you can get leather point needles at the fabric store and regular sewing thread and start to practice.  The down side is, your using regular thread and needles, so you wont be sewing very thick or hard leather.  If you have some time and a little more cash, look for a Singer 111 machine.  They can be found from $200-$500 and are a true leather machine and a great machine to learn sewing leather on. 

 

 

I see a Black 301, the 401a, and a 500a. All look metal on the outside...

What about Pfaff??

301

500a

 

[Sledzep01]

10 hours ago, Yetibelle said:

The Singer 301, 401a and 500a are decent machines, pick the 401a if you have the option.  Yes they are home machines and not walking foot leather machines, but they are a the last batch of Singer machines made with metal parts.  They are the first group of Singer machines to take the standard 15 needle, so you can get leather point needles at the fabric store and regular sewing thread and start to practice.  The down side is, your using regular thread and needles, so you wont be sewing very thick or hard leather.  If you have some time and a little more cash, look for a Singer 111 machine.  They can be found from $200-$500 and are a true leather machine and a great machine to learn sewing leather on. 

 

 

Sorry to be a pest

I only need forward and reverse,  do the other 2 i linked to accept stronger tread and needles?

 

[Constabulary]

17 hours ago, Sledzep01 said:

video 1

Quote

His commend on YT:

The difference is my restorative and service process, which gives the machine unprecedented strength and burst

Must be an amazing and very secret process. I´m sure they are using some miracle "outer space" sewing machine oil too.

WHAT A JOKE - this very thin needle (#90 metric) OF COURSE will "punch through" the shown leather and almost any type of fabric - most likely even double the thickens. But this has nothing to do with how well this machine is set up by the seller or what ever. That's plain ans simple physics - A very thin needles combined with a very thin thread will punch through this OF COURSE like nothing. Guess why your Doc is using a very thin needle with his syringe and not a 1.4mm one. But try this machine with a 140 (22) needle with 30 (138) thread which is approx the lower end of thread and needle combination being used for sewing this type of leather "under real life conditions"  f.i. when sewing a proper leather belt - it will not work. or try to sell a belt which is sewn with a #90 needle and #50 thread (metric) - not that it only looks stupid and the seam has a very low breaking strength - almost any customer would point you a finger when he is looking at that belt - I bet.

This machine will not ne able to handle a 140 needle with 138 thread. Talking some bla bla while shooting a video with a short piece of thick leather and producing serious leather goods is a whole different thing.

Years ago I have killed 2 domestic machines until I figured / understood what it really means when people are taking about domestic and industrial sewing machines. And by far not all industrial sewing machines are meant to sew leather with - weight of a machine has nothing to do with its ability to sew leather / producing leather goods.

 

16 hours ago, Yetibelle said:

If you have some time and a little more cash, look for a Singer 111 machine.  They can be found from $200-$500 and are a true leather machine and a great machine to learn sewing leather on. 

So right!

Edited January 16, 2018 by Constabulary

[Sledzep01]

I see 2 singer 241 near me on tables, one is black and says 241-12 Listed as that but says consew on plaque in pics

The other is grey and justmsaysn241

 

Any info on these?? the 241=12 is $200 and close, the grey 241 is $250 and is further away, looks newer and comes with hundreds of needles and bobbins. and some thread

Can the grey one be easily removed from the table for transport??

I read the 241-12 article here and fear the oil on needle thing. will the grey one be the same??

 

Sled

Edited January 16, 2018 by Sledzep01

[Sledzep01]

OK Update

If I can get a truck I will buy the grey 241 for $200. This Saturday

They said it comes apart... I might need to do that if I cannot get a truck. I have a Toyota venza hatch back... PRayers needed if I dont get a truck

Can anyone tell me what I will need to do that. I have tools and I am mechanically inclined

I am going to bring an empty gallon container and funnel for the oil... I was told its expensive and  the tank comes off too. Will I need to drain it? or just put it on plastic??

[Wizcrafts]

16 hours ago, Sledzep01 said:

so they would just be singer 127... not 127### or something?

How old are these models, will they be one of those cool looking old black ones?

How about the white rotary?

I see 2 singer 241 near me on tables

The cool looking, black bodied, beautifully detailed Singer 27/127 and 28/128 machines that I had and sold were built between 1895 and 1905. They are the descendants of the scalloped bed VS models from the late 1890s. The last one to go was from May, 1902. The only way to get genuine parts for them is off a salvage machine of the same type. However, aftermarket bobbins and slide plates are still available and seem to fit okay.

There is no reverse on these old iron Singer sewing machines. That feature didn't come along for a very long time, well into the 20th Century.

I still have a White Rotary machine for sale, but nobody wants it. The usual reason is that the hand wheel is driven clockwise by a tiny rubber pulley on the motor. The teensie, spring loaded friction drive has very little driving power, except once the machine is already in motion. If you try to start sewing into an 8 ounce veg tan belt, the roller usually just spins while the wheel stays stationary. It is strictly for sewing cloth garments.

Regarding the Singer 241 machines, are you aware that they are factory machines meant to sew cloth at extremely high speed? The machine sits on top of an oil pan and gasket and has a pump to distribute the oil as the machine spins happily along at about 60+ stitches per second.

[Sledzep01]

35 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

The cool looking, black bodied, beautifully detailed Singer 27/127 and 28/128 machines that I had and sold were built between 1895 and 1905. They are the descendants of the scalloped bed VS models from the late 1890s. The last one to go was from May, 1902. The only way to get genuine parts for them is off a salvage machine of the same type. However, aftermarket bobbins and slide plates are still available and seem to fit okay.

There is no reverse on these old iron Singer sewing machines. That feature didn't come along for a very long time, well into the 20th Century.

I still have a White Rotary machine for sale, but nobody wants it. The usual reason is that the hand wheel is driven clockwise by a tiny rubber pulley on the motor. The teensie, spring loaded friction drive has very little driving power, except once the machine is already in motion. If you try to start sewing into an 8 ounce veg tan belt, the roller usually just spins while the wheel stays stationary. It is strictly for sewing cloth garments.

Regarding the Singer 241 machines, are you aware that they are factory machines meant to sew cloth at extremely high speed? The machine sits on top of an oil pan and gasket and has a pump to distribute the oil as the machine spins happily along at about 60+ stitches per second.

To be honest I am not aware of anything...

And thank you all for helping so far.

I am sure there is a way to slow it down right? the 241-12 that said consew said  1725 rpm on the back. I figured it would be close to that, and somewhere I read that was not too bad... better than a motor that was near 3k (paraphrasing what I read somewhere)

I do know about the bath. 

If I can handle it will it sew jeans, light canvas and light upcycle leather from couches and coats?

It looks great (although I do wish it was the black and gold...) this is what the ad says.

Certainly looks strong, and worth $200.00
Am I wrong??? is this NOT variable speed??  Wow that would be bad!! Wizcrafts, you seem to be very knowledgeable, can you tell from the pics which model it is and if it is variable??

Runs good, only selling because I have cancer having to quit sewing.
Will sew heavy material, leather, canvas layers of denim 
Includes: 100 bobbins
100 needles
light with extra bulb
extra long cord
owners manual on CD
several spools of Mylar thread.

 

Sled

Edited January 16, 2018 by Sledzep01

[Yetibelle]

31 minutes ago, Sledzep01 said:

To be honest I am not aware of anything...

And thank you all for helping so far.

I am sure there is a way to slow it down right? the 241-12 that said consew said  1725 rpm on the back. I figured it would be close to that, and somewhere I read that was not too bad... better than a motor that was near 3k (paraphrasing what I read somewhere)

I do know about the bath. 

If I can handle it will it sew jeans, light canvas and light upcycle leather from couches and coats?

It looks great (although I do wish it was the black and gold...) this is what the ad says.

Certainly looks strong, and worth $200.00
Am I wrong??? is this NOT variable speed??  Wow that would be bad!! Wizcrafts, you seem to be very knowledgeable, can you tell from the pics which model it is and if it is variable??

Runs good, only selling because I have cancer having to quit sewing.
Will sew heavy material, leather, canvas layers of denim 
Includes: 100 bobbins
100 needles
light with extra bulb
extra long cord
owners manual on CD
several spools of Mylar thread.

 

Sled

You don't want this to be your first industrial sewing machine, if your goal is to sew leather. 

First this is not a leather machine.  Second I don't like any "oil-pan" machines.  I am sure some people out there love them, and if I was running a factory of these machines I'm sure it was great just filling them up and checking the window and topping them off every so often.  However as a hobby this is a pain.  If you ever move the machine oil will slush all over.  Sure you can swap out the motor with a new Servo motor and that will slow it down, but its still not a leather machine.  Keep looking

[Wizcrafts]

The motor is a fixed speed clutch motor. Maybe you can teach yourself to feather the clutch; maybe not. The only way to slow it down would be to change the pulley to a smaller size. This would have the unintended consequence of slowing down the oil pump, leading to premature failure of the machine. The pump must spin very fast to distribute the oil to all the extremities.

Unless you plan to sew garments for a living, this is money thrown to the wind. You will regret it every time you touch the pedal and it rips off 60 stitches before you know what's happening.

I set up a Singer 241 for a sewing school a few years ago. The only way the ladies could control it was to set the stitch length to the tiniest setting of about 30 per inch.

[rodneywt1180b]

I would rule out the 301s.  They're 3/4 size machines and tend to be more expensive than other models.  Quilters love them but they're too light for any kind of serious leather work.

I didn't think of the Singer 27, 127 and 28/128 machines due to the shuttle arrangement.  The bobbins don't hold a lot of thread but it's nice to know they can be adjusted for thicker threads.

The 28/128 machines are about 3/4 the size of the 27s and 127s.  A 127 fitted with an aftermarket hand crank would be slower than a motor driven machine but would get the job done.

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/47947394

This is most likely a 27.  The bobbin winder was moved up.  This machine was most likely originally treadle driven and was "updated" in the 40s.

Mostly it looks like it's just missing a slide plate and the controller and cords for the motor.  Most of these machines don't need much more than a good oiling and cleaning to make them work again.

EDIT:  The hand wheel was changed out at the time the motor was added.  It should have a larger spoked wheel.

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by rodneywt1180b

[mikesc]

"Alec Guinness voice and hand wave"
These are not the machines you are looking for..
"/Alec Guinness voice and hand wave"

Seriously young Padawan..they are not.

Edited January 16, 2018 by mikesc

[rodneywt1180b]

I agree but an old straight stitching singer can be had for cheap and could be a decent stop-gap machine until the right (actually made for leather) machine turns up.  Just another option.

[Wizcrafts]

While this diversion into old domestic iron body machines has been fun, it is not useful for people wanting to seriously sew leather. I encourage anybody who is thinking about getting their first sewing machine, with sewing leather in mind, to read my pinned topic about The Type Of Sewing Machine You Need To Sew Leather.

[Sledzep01]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

While this diversion into old domestic iron body machines has been fun, it is not useful for people wanting to seriously sew leather. I encourage anybody who is thinking about getting their first sewing machine, with sewing leather in mind, to read my pinned topic about The Type Of Sewing Machine You Need To Sew Leather.

I did read that, and everything related to the 241 on this board. 

And you and everyone here have been very helpful. But I cannot do what's "right" for leather at this time. I am not a full time leather person or anything else except Network Engineer. I don't know what I will do with this machine but I think it will be mine Saturday. $200.00 plus gas with the extra parts, looks clean... After a quick servo motor I probably won't even sew my finger to something. So far in the 6 weeks since I have owned stitching needles I have not even touched any Veg Tan leather. Just leftovers and couches and coats.

I don't mind that the machine is not rated for making bags, but it does seem like a decent deal for the combination stuff I want to do on it. It still seems like it will hold up better than some of the others I considered like the 401A.

Yes I will need to rev it up at (at least) the beginning of each session to get the oil going, but considering how often most home or other non automatic machines probably get oiled I hope to be fine.

I watched about a dozen videos about it today and I am hooked on the all metal puzzle of cleaning and adjusting it. I have worked on much more complex machines in the past (Not sewing machines though) The only downside in my mind is that if I get to using it well I will stagnate on my hand stitching!!

Keep the opinions and tips coming if anyone wants to, but my mind is made up at this point.

I really did/do appreciate all of the help.

Hopefully this will be soon, just not as skilled

Sled